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Jun 30, 2012 -- 6:38AM, Emerikol wrote:

Jun 29, 2012 -- 10:28PM, Tony_Vargas wrote:

I have noticed you push for the exculsion of anything you consider a 'plot coupon,' - demand on threat of rage-quitting, really, more than 'push for.'  

I do not.  I push for the inclusion of my playstyle NOT the exclusion of yours.  I just say that if you include ONLY a plot coupon wielding option then this game won't be for me.   Just like 4e is not for me.

...

My guess is they realize AEDU is bad for a lot of people.

I think they realize that AEDU is hated by a lot of people, and they're caving to those demands.  AEDU isn't something I'm entirely pleased with, but the use of a common structure for all classes achieved a functional level of balance among them for the first time in the game's history.  That's not something to throw in the dustbin, especially when the goal is a broad-apeal edition.  Broad apeal needs balance much more so than does niche apeal - a niche game can include imbalances that reward the play style its targetted at, a 'one right way to play.'  

5e doesn't have to use AEDU - if it wants to better than 4e, it should almost certainly drop the 'D' for instance - but if it doesn't build upon a common structure of some sort, it'll just be another poorly-balanced version of D&D that rewards some play style(s) over others, and it will fail in it's stated goal.

Jul 2, 2012 -- 6:38PM, Ogiwan wrote:

Jul 2, 2012 -- 12:24PM, Chakravant wrote:

Try doing a non-combat session "by the book".

I did.

Tell me, how did it work out?  Care to describe it, to support your claim it was "by the book"?

Jul 2, 2012 -- 9:10PM, Tony_Vargas wrote:

Jul 2, 2012 -- 1:13PM, Chakravant wrote:

I have found skill challenges to be so abyssmal they fail even after house ruling.

The DMG 1 SC rules were very nearly that bad (Stalker 0 on ENWorld came up with some decent fixes for them, though).  DMG2 and Rules Compendium got it a lot better.  I use Skill Challenges, heavily, now, and they really help get my group (which is large, and meets for only 2hrs/week) through out-of-combat stuff reasonably quickly and while keeping everyone involved.  

No DM fiat in loot tables leads to a +2 longsword dropping for a Cleric, Wizard, and Archer ("But you can always Disenchant it!  Just like in an MMO!").

OK, on the SC thing, you may just have been 3 years behind the times.  Here you're not just flat-out getting your facts wrong, you've gotten them completely backwards.  4e doesn't use random tables to determine what items are found.  Not even the trying-to-be-retro Essentials does that.  

4E is unplayable without a large number of house rules.  Those rules are simply so common most players have forgotten they aren't in the book.

That could be said about AD&D, sure.  3e, not so much.  There's been a sea-change in the community since the turn of the millenium and house rules aren't so popular as they used to be.  RAW is king.  In 3e, house rules were often proposed but rarely taken seriously.   In 4e the use - even discussion - of house rules is pretty unusual.  

Actually even with Stalker 0's adjustments, our party has yet to succeed in a skill challenge.  Granted, we've only had 1 since the adjustment, so the sample size isn't great.

I never mentioned random loot tables.  Being "old school" I probably used poor terminology.  What I meant to say was the pregenerated loot presupposes certain aspects be present in your party.  Which is annoying since 4E was supposed to move away from such presuppositions.

I've found every edition has needed house rules.  It is one of the reasons I am on these forums, to minimize them.  I know they will never go away, but they should be as unnecessary as possible.