I am in a constant battle with a player of mine. He insists that the rules of physics break down in DND. Obviously, it is a game, but are some things that should be realistic left out? For instance, if a beast is galloping toward you and you are set for a charge, does the beast run you over when you kill it? If a dragon is charging out of the air and you kill it does it land on you and flatten you? Are there any rules that govern these types of behavior? We are playing 3.5.
It's generally left up to the artistry of the DM. Apart from falling (which even then is more directly concerned with the damage a falling creature suffers), it would generally be more complicated than worthwhile to have the game system model stopping distances and most creatures aren't actually travelling very fast, so it's just assumed that they come to a stop roughly where they fell. When a creature on the ground isn't charging or running, this is pretty reasonable since they can turn and move in any direction they like and are essentially treated as having full control of their momentum.
Things like true dragons (which could be flying at over 100 mph) certainly make it more obvious, but it's not specifically covered. If you did model them realistically, their weight will pretty much splatter whatever they hit, but they're generally not obeying the laws of physics in the first place, since a creature designed like a true dragon wouldn't be able to get airborne in the real world.
In short, it's usually handwaved, but you could institute something of your own if it bothers you.
The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens
= My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.Show
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. • When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. • When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. • When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. • When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. • When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
In a world where saying "Klatu, Verata, Nikto", twisting yourself into a yoga pretzel, and flinging bat poop at someone creates a ball of fire nearly big enough to incinerate a full tractor trailer (and happens to bend around corners), I'd be less concerned with a tiny bit of lost momentum than the more egregious failures of physics.
Sure, there are places where the rules lead to really bizarre physics loopholes, but usually these are corner cases that will never show up in normal gameplay, and it is a game, not a physics simulation.
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.
[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling) [TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme) [AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class) [RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme) [AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility) [TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC) [TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods) [TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability) [AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme) [AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage) [TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme) [AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme). [TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme) [RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management) [SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum) [RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt) [AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder) [RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard) [RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster) [RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout) [AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum) [AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme) [DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x) [AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB)) [RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive) [AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork) [TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support) [DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility) [AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt) [RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical) [RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical) [TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist) [RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme) [AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity) [TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)
Sure, there are places where the rules lead to really bizarre physics loopholes, but usually these are corner cases that will never show up in normal gameplay, and it is a game, not a physics simulation.
The commoner rail gun mentioned there is actually understating it a bit, since with the way readied actions occur before the triggering event, the rock reaches the end of the chain earlier than it leaves the start. So you've got a time travelling rock that ignores momentum.
The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens
= My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.Show
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. • When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. • When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. • When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. • When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. • When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Are there any RPGs that do NOT violate the laws of physics in some way but are reasonably easy to play?
They can avoid violating physics if the ruleset is sufficiently nonspecific that physics are never really an issue, or if physics aren't really part of the gameplay.
Consider, for example, a hypothetical RPG dealing entirely with corporate banking. It could have a lot of mechanical rules about legal and financial matters, and an intricate and political game of roleplay as the various profiteers try to work things to their advantage, while matters like the speed of a car or the physical fitness of the characters exist only in the descriptive sense.
In short, violations of physics really depend on how much the game tries to model physics.
The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens
= My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.Show
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. • When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. • When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. • When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. • When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. • When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
For what it's worth, Original Poster, Some things do in fact suck. Physics, Initiative, Distance. What happens when you ready your set 6' spear against a mounted knight with a 15' lance? Who hits first? Bleh.
Just last week, I had two vikings set spears against a diving white dragon on a strafing run. Luckily, my player also watches Hollywood and agreed that the 20' cone of frost trumps the length of a spear, rules and initiative be damned.
Sometimes, you just have to suspend the already suspended disbelief, and go with your gut.
Are there any RPGs that do NOT violate the laws of physics in some way but are reasonably easy to play?
They can avoid violating physics if the ruleset is sufficiently nonspecific that physics are never really an issue, or if physics aren't really part of the gameplay.
Consider, for example, a hypothetical RPG dealing entirely with corporate banking. It could have a lot of mechanical rules about legal and financial matters, and an intricate and political game of roleplay as the various profiteers try to work things to their advantage, while matters like the speed of a car or the physical fitness of the characters exist only in the descriptive sense.
In short, violations of physics really depend on how much the game tries to model physics.
That's what I get for being non-specific.
If physics is part of a game it is most likely going to have some liberties taken with it. I guess that most of the RPGs I've played/read involve a "party" that goes out and does things and often times those "things" involve stuff that probably isn't going to happen in reality.
I'm also a big believer in that article Tempest links to about setting your expectations for DnD. When "reasonable" numbers are used for low level parties a lot of the physics works out but when you start getting to those higher levels and begin considering Magic and other abilities reality, and with it Physics, goes out the window.
I am in a constant battle with a player of mine. He insists that the rules of physics break down in DND. Obviously, it is a game, but are some things that should be realistic left out? For instance, if a beast is galloping toward you and you are set for a charge, does the beast run you over when you kill it? If a dragon is charging out of the air and you kill it does it land on you and flatten you? Are there any rules that govern these types of behavior? We are playing 3.5.
I would look at this one of two ways;
1) if you're succesful in killing the creature you have the ability to dodge out of the way, like a side step and hit at the same time.
2) if they are reading a lance and standing infront of an oncoming creature I would make them do a strength check to avoid being plowed over by the dead body, or a reflex check (at least a DC25) to get out of the way.
Since the oncoming creature would loose physical control do a roll as to where it is going to land. We do that when killing a giant and it's falling over.
Sure, there are places where the rules lead to really bizarre physics loopholes, but usually these are corner cases that will never show up in normal gameplay, and it is a game, not a physics simulation.
The commoner rail gun mentioned there is actually understating it a bit, since with the way readied actions occur before the triggering event, the rock reaches the end of the chain earlier than it leaves the start. So you've got a time travelling rock that ignores momentum.
Readied actions can occasionally trigger paradoxes (or at best infinite recursion loops) if followed that literally, though - "I ready an action to attack the goblin mook with my +5 Sword of Awesome as soon as he moves through the door" tends to involve the goblin dying "before" he moves through the door, thus the readied action would never trigger, and thus the goblin lives to move through the door, which triggers the readied action....
Interestingly, the original "commoner rail gun" involved ready actions to catch and throw a quarterstaff. It was so named because each commoner apparently added speed to the staff (and thus, it functioned like a railgun when the last commoner let go; this is not what happens in the example I linked), but this hinged upon real-world physics, and was defeated by real-world physics (in that the staff was launched via throwing, and had to be caught and thrown by the commoners at an ever-increasing rate, quickly going far beyond what human reflexes could handle).
Epic level skill checks can produce similar results, both in terms of physics and psychology. The Jumplomancer comes to mind as doing both at once; the same trick can be applied to any skill for hilarious results. The version of this that uses Escape Artist was termed the "Spelunker" in polite company, or the "Arseplodemancer" in less-polite company. (DC 80 Escape Artist lets you go into places where your head doesn't fit; this is followed by any expansion effect, then - thanks to Persuasive Performance - a winning smile and legions of loyal followers, minus the guy you just, er, asploded.)
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.
[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling) [TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme) [AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class) [RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme) [AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility) [TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC) [TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods) [TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability) [AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme) [AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage) [TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme) [AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme). [TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme) [RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management) [SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum) [RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt) [AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder) [RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard) [RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster) [RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout) [AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum) [AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme) [DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x) [AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB)) [RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive) [AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork) [TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support) [DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility) [AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt) [RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical) [RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical) [TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist) [RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme) [AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity) [TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)
