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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 4:24AM
#31
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In other words, make a balanced game.
Individual DMs can always screw up their own game balance if they want to.
I wish the designers took this approach throughout development.
"Design a good game. Let DMs houserule it into the ground."
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 4:30AM
#32
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I know that rolling for hit points is how it has (almost) always been done. And heck yes it's awesome when you roll that "0" on the d10 when leveling your fighter. Same for rolling stats.
But as others have discussed, this game has a fundamental balance proposition of certain key statistics being fixed and scalaing with level so that you can design effective but not too easy/hard challenges. I am fully aware that you can house rule in all sorts of re-roll systems, but if the point is that too low of hit points is problematic and needs house rules to address, then to me that means the issue is that in order for the game balance and combat mechanics to work, you need a certain minimum hit points.
And once convinced of that point, the opposite side of the coin is that too high of a level of hit points can push the balance in the other direction.
Fixed HP's per level is the only solution I see as viable.
Pathfinder introduced a concept of being able to either pick 1 extra skill point or 1 extra HP if you advance your "favored" class. That gave some customization options to the player, as did Toughness feats without throwing combats out of balance. Maybe something along those lines will help make it feel less like "every fighter is the same" while still controlling the core of making combat balanced.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 4:33AM
#33
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If the game is so fragile that a minor variance in hitpoints causes it to fall to pieces, I don't want to play it.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 6:43AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2004
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When a character levels he rolls all his Hit Dice. Then uses the new total, if the new roll is less than what he had, we add 1 hp to his current hp and disregards the roll.
For Example (3.5 edition)
Bob the fighter was 4th level with 23 hp
Bob makes level 5 and rolls 5d10 he rolls 5 4 7 7 2 his CON is 12 so he gets another 5hp total = 30
another example: he rolls 2 3 1 5 6 + 5 from CON this = 22hp which becomes 24 hp.
My rule fixes two problems.
rolling too many ones etc. or the guys who rolled hight numbers.
This is VERY interesting. I like it, My suggestion was to roll HD + 1 HD per con mod. Fo 12 Cond Rogue would rold 2d6 taking best roll.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 7:11AM
#35
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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I like rolling Hit Points (and ability scores) and in D&D Next some element of character creation or advancement should definitly have the option to be random for those like me that like to, despite what people may have against it. Multiple generation methods should co-exist.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 7:48AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2005
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Strangely enough I just did a blog post about rolling hp and posted a google doc spreadsheet showing the averages for HP, Healing, and percentage of your HP you can heal. Again all based on probability averages. All you have to do is change block 21B for the con score and everything adjusts. Con affects hit dice healing way more than HP. In fact it takes an 18 con to raise the average of a wizard from 3 to 4 (rounding up if over .5) and a d12 always stays 7 even at 20 con. If you round down, a d4 changes at 16 and 18, but the d12 stays at 6 until 18 con when the average hits 7. Again this is just averages, once you have 18 con you will never get less than 4hp per level, if you have 20 you will never get less than 5hp. Taking rules as written that means that a d4 character actually would gain 5hp per level. Take it for what you will, I just did it because I like math.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 7:56AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2007
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rolling for hit points sucks.
....
Yep, +1, I don't like random hit points either. Personally if they don't have a rule for static hit points in DDN I'll end up houseruling that a character has whatever the average of their random hit points would be at each level, taking into account their Con modifier minimum on the dice rolls, rounded up. (Normally you round down in DDN but I'm a softie when it comes to hit points for the players, I'll give them the extra hit point.)
P.S. Random healing is fine, it's just randomized character creation and leveling up that I don't like.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 8:13AM
#38
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Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2011
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Well, first of all, rolling for HPs makes no sense. "well, I'm done killing monsters, let's see how much luget and morale I get"
Second, the core NEEDS to be non random. A game system is broken if it uses random stat/HP generation, which is fine for those who want it, but THE CORE NEEDS TO BE BALANCED! Having people choose what method at the table doesn't work either, as it creates automatic discrepancies.
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Oblivious troll is Oblivious PbP supporter! General thoughts, feelings, and info on DDN!
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Stuff I Heard Mike Say (subject to change): Multiclassing will be different than in 3.5! That's important.
There is no level cap; classes advance ala 3.5 epic levels after a set level.
Mundane (AKA fighter and co) encounter and daily powers will probably not be in the PHB (for the lack of space), but nor will they be in some obscure book released halfway through the edition. You can't please everyone, but you can please me. I DO NOT WANT A FREAKING 4E REPEAT. I DO NOT WANT A MODULE THAT MIMICS MY FAVORITE EDITION. I WANT MODULES THAT MIMIC A PLAYSTYLE AND CAN BE INTERCHANGED TO COMPLETELY CHANGE THE FEEL, BUT NOT THE THEME, OF D&D. A perfect example would be an espionage module, or desert survival. A BAD EXAMPLE IS HEALING SURGES. WE HAVE 4E FOR THOSE! A good example is a way to combine a mundane and self healing module, a high-survival-rate module, and a separate pool of healing resource module.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 8:15AM
#39
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Date Joined:
May 23, 2012
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rolling for hit points sucks.
First of all it just isn't fun to have have such an important stat be a random die roll. It also lends to people wanting rerolls or just plain cheating. If it
Furthermore, designers never roll hit dice for their monsters. Nope. They decide the hit points based on how challenging the monster will be for the targeted party of the module.
Rolling for hit points just created too many problems in the past. Give people static hit points. It makes it easier for those module makers to select their predetermined hit points.
Another reason that static hit points should be in the game for characters is the thing I'm suggesting next.
The idea that 5th level players get 2 standard actions in which they could attack someone at 2[w]. Or one defensive action when they are attacked and then one standard action during their turn.
I'm also suggesting that at 10th level, a player should get 3 standard actions.
At 15th level 3 standard actions and some kind of defensive action such as a Dodge Action or an opportunity attack.
In order to elevate the hit die this high, which makes encounters go faster!, we need static high hit points.
Hey, if Hook Horror can get 2 standard attacks during its turn, why not characters? Absolutely.
Wizards should be able to cast the same spell on 2 targets at 5th level unless it is a very powerful burst or spell that renders a monster helpless.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 8:16AM
#40
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You could "split the difference". Like they work the Passive Skills in 4E. You either use your Passive Perception (10+Per) or your roll, whichever is better.
So just give all a flat number of HPs per level, what the game designers use as a point of balance for each class and what the monster damage design is based on.
Then allow each to roll for hitpoints as per D&D Next Playtest or some new system that works better. They take either the roll or the default, whichever is better for them.
The "for them" is important for some, as it means those who just like the idea of getting bad rolls and want that traditional feel can just say, "I rolled less than the default, so I choose to take the LOWER roll which is best FOR ME and the flavor I like." Another says, "I am gunning for optimum, and always take the better result."
This way, rolling for hitpoints would become fun again, as you know you always have the default to fall back to, so you are not going to get screwed and be suboptimal, lower than what the game expects you to have, yet you know you have a chance to be slightly better than you should for your level, so it is a win-win.
Again, for groups who want to just use the default and not roll, they can just say that taking the default, regardless of what I roll is better FOR ME, so these would never bother rolling. Those who like to roll as it is fun for them, can do so and be safe from a result that brings them lower than the default. Those who want that old school feel, always choose the die result, even if it is worse than the default, as that would be better FOR THEM.
This way all get what they want, and you could have all 3 types of PCs at the same table each playing their own HP method without much issue since each player CHOSE his method, so they cannot complain about others in this regard. The DM is then always free to FORCE a method on the players as a rule in his game, but this will happen anyway, and does not mess with the basic default of being allowed to do both and choose your result the way you like it.
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