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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 5:45AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2004
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So, after another round of playtesting yesterday playing at 3rd level in a different area with lower level monsters and lots of them we found that the saving throw mechanic started to become a chore for the GM.
One encounter for example had 8 kobolds surprising the pc, so I had to make 16 d20 rolls because of advantage (strength in numbers). Then the wizard cast sleep so then I had to roll 8 saving throw rolls. Against a room of 18 rats, I had a lot of attack rolls then had a lot of saving throws rolls against burning hands and the Pelor cleric's Channel Radiance.
It just was like damn how many rolls do I need to make. Also, the players really didn't make a lot of rolls in the encounter, for a large part of these 2 encounters I felt like I was playing by myself. After this I just let the players make the saving throw rolls for the monsters so they had something to do.
Anyone else feel like this?
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 6:10AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2011
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You could always rules that a % of the creature are affected!
Against the sleep, if they needed 15+ to save, put asleep ¾ of the creatures!
I'm playing:
Abin Gadon, Halfling Bard
Winston "Slurphnose", Gnome Sorcerer
Pasiphaé, Minotaur Shaman
Eglerion, Elf Ellyrian Reaver (Ranger)
DMing:
Le Trésor du Fluide (Treasure from the Fluid)
Un Royaume d'une Grande Valeur (A Kingdom of Great Value)
La Légende de Persitaa (Persitaa's Legend)
Une Série de Petites Quêtes... (A serie of short quests)
Playtesting:
Caves of Chaos
We're building the greatest adventure ever known to DnD players!
Also playing Legend of the Five Rings and Warhammer Fantasy.
Sébastien, Beloeil, Qc.
I am Neutral Good and 32 years old.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 6:25AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Mar 20, 2001
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Against a room of 18 rats, I had a lot of attack rolls then had a lot of saving throws rolls against burning hands and the Pelor cleric's Channel Radiance.
You do realise against both the rats and the kobolds, there is no need to make a saving throw against Burning Hands or Channel Radiance as half damage kills them anyway? They are worse than minions.
A one point our fighter jumped back across the pit and rapid fired his crossbow, never rolling anything as his minimum damage 1 point (from using Dex to attack) was enough to kill a rat.
In fact in the fight against the kobolds and rats the Fighter rarely has to roll dice as his attack kills if he hits or misses, the wizard rarely rolls dice as magic missile auto hits and auto kills, and burning hands does the same.
In fact except for five creatures you never need to roll damage or saving throws (for damaging spells) at all in that area because the minimum damage kills everything else. Once we realised that it played even faster.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 7:02AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2004
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You do realise against both the rats and the kobolds, there is no need to make a saving throw against Burning Hands or Channel Radiance as half damage kills them anyway? They are worse than minions.
That is true. My point is more about at even higher levels the GM will be rolling a lot in general, when spells won't auto kill no matter what. Say 8+ orcs or anything really.
When you have the GM making attack rolls for the monsters and making a lot of saving thorws for the monster. That's a lot of extra work for the GM and also excludes the players from rolling.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 7:09AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Mar 20, 2001
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It how it always was prior to 4th Ed, one of the design choices they made with spell casting with 4th Ed was to give more rolls to the player, hence the attack roll for spells rather than a saving throw. But from my reading of the rules and play testing they have thrown out most of the good ideas from 4th Ed in an effort to appeal to players of prior editions. Yet oddly kept in the one (full healing over night and hit dice surges) they seem to hate the most.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 7:47AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2004
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It how it always was prior to 4th Ed, one of the design choices they made with spell casting with 4th Ed was to give more rolls to the player, hence the attack roll for spells rather than a saving throw. But from my reading of the rules and play testing they have thrown out most of the good ideas from 4th Ed in an effort to appeal to players of prior editions. Yet oddly kept in the one (full healing over night and hit dice surges) they seem to hate the most.
I played 4e and wasn't the biggest fam of it, but I really did like putting the rolls in players hands mechanic.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 10:15AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Apr 30, 2012
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Thats one thing that i houseruled during my playtest. Its quite easy, your attack bonus with spells is cd-10 and the target defense is 10+bonus stat+2. Just don't forget the +2 or they will hit much more than in the standard system. Also the attack bonus that the wizard gets applies only to attacks against AC (like proficency in 4E).
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 10:23AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2004
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Thats one thing that i houseruled during my playtest. Its quite easy, your attack bonus with spells is cd-10 and the target defense is 10+bonus stat+2. Just don't forget the +2 or they will hit much more than in the standard system. Also the attack bonus that the wizard gets applies only to attacks against AC (like proficency in 4E).
We just house ruled the player makes the moster saving throw. That way it worked as they intended it to for the playtest. The problem with a lot of house rules, is my gaming group and a lot of gamers we play living campaigns at conventions. So house ruling doesn't really work for us. We need solid working rules that we will find and use at any convention or living campaign game
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 1:18PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2004
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I also didn't appreciate 4e all that much, but there were a few likable ideas. Players rolling an attack against the monster's save was wonderful. Just as the game evolved from the 1e attack tables to 2e and THAC0 to 3e where higher AC was better, I think Next can evolve where players and creatures can attack against a saving throw. In all reality, it's the same thing except the attacker gets to roll the die. Its a better system!
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 1:23PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2004
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I also didn't appreciate 4e all that much, but there were a few likable ideas. Players rolling an attack against the monster's save was wonderful. Just as the game evolved from the 1e attack tables to 2e and THAC0 to 3e where higher AC was better, I think Next can evolve where players and creatures can attack against a saving throw. In all reality, it's the same thing except the attacker gets to roll the die. Its a better system!
100% agree
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