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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 6:01AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2010
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Yeah... it seems the ideal character post in these forums would be one built by a char-op expert who already knows what he's doing and just wants to bounce off a couple ideas. Understandably "do it for me" posts aren't favorable, nor are "check out my awesome guy!" who isn't quite so awesome. But then you have another type where a person posts their humble character idea, intentions, and request for critique which still somehow gets met with scorn.
You have the right idea on this.
If you "Challenge"CharOP to build a character for you, you will be met with scorn, and deservedly so.
That being said, I see posters requesting honest feedback who still get treated poorly. The problem is that there are very few people on CharOP who know how to give a critique that is not only honest, but also respectful and constructive.
That's why it is so great to have LDB back on the boards. He has a wealth of knowledge and equal amounts of tact and willingness to help.
If only everyone on CharOP posted in the same manner...
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 6:45AM
#22
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Yeah, I've been on the receiving end of those not-really-helpful comments to the point I just stopped posting quirky build ideas up here. I think the last attempt was noticing a certain leader-controller combo could get access to a scaling damage boost and making the mistake of calling the builds damage boosts and off action attacks a striker proxy. Instead of helping, most comments seemed to boil down to "do all the research your self and put up the final dpr numbers to prove the build's worth to us". I did get the build up to decent striker numbers eventually, but by that point I was so tired of defending my desire to optimize a quirky concept that I just didn't bother putting up the final results.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 7:19AM
#23
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Yeah, I've been on the receiving end of those not-really-helpful comments to the point I just stopped posting quirky build ideas up here. I think the last attempt was noticing a certain leader-controller combo could get access to a scaling damage boost and making the mistake of calling the builds damage boosts and off action attacks a striker proxy. Instead of helping, most comments seemed to boil down to "do all the research your self and put up the final dpr numbers to prove the build's worth to us". I did get the build up to decent striker numbers eventually, but by that point I was so tired of defending my desire to optimize a quirky concept that I just didn't bother putting up the final results.
What are you talking about? People agreed it was a good build just not great because it was just a cute trick. It wasn't going to do anything compared to a striker in terms of nova. Especially since you could just make him a charger and do more damage, easier and more flexible.
The burden of proof is on the build supplier. It is rather easy to calculate DPR, which you failed to do so. If you aren't willing to put in some basic effort to support your claims why should anyone bother taking it seriously.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 8:36AM
#24
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The burden of proof is on the build supplier. It is rather easy to calculate DPR, which you failed to do so.
I did so in the first post and again on page 3. Feel free to double check that if you like (community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...). My initial estimates wear more conservative as I wanted to see how it did without being highly item dependant.
Especially since you could just make him a charger and do more damage, easier and more flexible.
This is honestly the type of comment that lead me to stop posting. It's real easy to read this as "if you can't make something as good as the best supported option in the game, don't bother posting". Since I like doing odd ball builds and really don't have any new insights on the heavily trod builds like chargers, hence no posting.
People agreed it was a good build just not great because it was just a cute trick. It wasn't going to do anything compared to a striker in terms of nova.
Looking back through it, there were some supportive voices. It's just really easy to get burned by the "charger or bust" comments. Rereading did make me feel better about the whole afair, but I'm still unlikely to through any more odd ball ideas this way.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 8:45AM
#25
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The burden of proof is on the build supplier. It is rather easy to calculate DPR, which you failed to do so.
I did so in the first post and again on page 3. Feel free to double check that if you like (community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...). My initial estimates wear more conservative as I wanted to see how it did without being highly item dependant.
That is not calculating DPR. You did a 5 round average assuming hits. Look at a LDB build where he calculates the DPR and Nova potential. 5 round simulation is rather pointless in TheOP.
This is honestly the type of comment that lead me to stop posting. It's real easy to read this as "if you can't make something as good as the best supported option in the game, don't bother posting". Since I like doing odd ball builds and really don't have any new insights on the heavily trod builds like chargers, hence no posting.
So since people pointed out it was a neat trick but nothing ground breaking because it doesn't change the meta you pout your pants off? What did you want? knob slobbering by Mike Mearls himself? It is a neat trick, that is about it. Congrats and move on. If it was a char you wanted to play most people said it would work well. If what you were aiming for was some sort of plateau in Theorhetical OP...it is a bit short because as a leader it is lacking, as a controller it is lacking and as a striker it is lacking.
Your thread accomplished what you stated supposedly (a passible striker in a normal game) yet you whine like someone spilled your milk. Why?
Looking back through it, there were some supportive voices. It's just really easy to get burned by the "charger or bust" comments. Rereading did make me feel better about the whole afair, but I'm still unlikely to through any more odd ball ideas this way.
It isn't a big loss if you are going to whine when people offer contrary positions....this is a forum not a stand for you to give a speech and for us to applaud.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 9:59AM
#26
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The point of the thread was partly to share a cool trick and partly to figure out how to make it better. The thing is I spent 2 pages defending wanting to optimize around restrictions and only got any actual suggestions by the 3rd page. My complaint is largely that going to char op asking "how do I make this better" resulted in a lot of "do something else".
Honestly, the thread was probably just a kick off poiny. I think the long and short of it that a few tricks seem to be dominating the landscape, which is a shame considering my favorite part of char op is seeing crazy builds.
In any case, I'd rather not get into a "this is not helpful" / "whiner" argument with Tektonik. I do agree the OP of this thread really didn't give us much to work with beside making a high dpr psion.
Actually, come to think of it, they should probably just pick one of the psion's ranged at will that counts as an RBA and add on all the standard basic attack boosters, maybe throw in a striker or seeker multiclass for some nova damage.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 10:12AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2011
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At which point you should just refluff a ranger as arcane...
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 10:22AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2007
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The burden of proof is on the build supplier. It is rather easy to calculate DPR, which you failed to do so.
I did so in the first post and again on page 3. Feel free to double check that if you like (community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...). My initial estimates wear more conservative as I wanted to see how it did without being highly item dependant.
Especially since you could just make him a charger and do more damage, easier and more flexible.
This is honestly the type of comment that lead me to stop posting. It's real easy to read this as "if you can't make something as good as the best supported option in the game, don't bother posting". Since I like doing odd ball builds and really don't have any new insights on the heavily trod builds like chargers, hence no posting.
People agreed it was a good build just not great because it was just a cute trick. It wasn't going to do anything compared to a striker in terms of nova.
Looking back through it, there were some supportive voices. It's just really easy to get burned by the "charger or bust" comments. Rereading did make me feel better about the whole afair, but I'm still unlikely to through any more odd ball ideas this way.
The problem is that charging isn't the best supported option in the game. Just the dumbest, easiest to optimize one. The scorn comes from being so lazy that you can't see 'beat the charger' as a reasonable challenge. C'mon, son, it's not that hard! Put the effort in!
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@svendj: Your system mastery is more than high enough and everybody will be willing to help. Go for it! 
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 10:50AM
#29
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That's why it is so great to have LDB back on the boards. He has a wealth of knowledge and equal amounts of tact and willingness to help.
If only everyone on CharOP posted in the same manner...
Not to sound like I am running down LDB, I'm not, but what are you talking about? LDB is the poster-child for rudely dismissing ignorant people and telling them to learn something before they post again. He invented the term "Low. System. Mastery." to insult people who are ignorant and are, deservedly!, criticized and ignored for their lack of effort in trying to understand the rules before they post opinions.
Which is behavior I completely approve of. Experts are allowed to dismiss people who are not experts. Most people don't like being treated that way and get belligerent about it, but that is their problem and not the experts. So obviously I don't mind that LDB rudely dismisses people all the time.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 11:11AM
#30
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Headband of Intellect
Resplendent Gloves
Mindwarp Staff of Ruin
Siberys Shard of the Mage
Implement Focus
Psychic Lock
...done...
Now have fun spamming Dishearten every encounter.
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