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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 9:13AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2011
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Spiral Tactician is inferior to Battle Captain. There is pretty much no reason to take the former.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 9:19AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2009
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Build update to reflect GELo's suggestions. NEW BUILD
Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Q'arth, level 8
Githzerai, Avenger/Cleric
Hybrid Avenger Option: Hybrid Avenger Fortitude
Hybrid Cleric Option: Battle Cleric's Lore
Hybrid Talent Option: Avenger's Censure (Hybrid)
Avenger's Censure Option: Censure of Pursuit
Inherent Bonuses
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Sohei
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 14, CON 13, DEX 18, INT 10, WIS 20, CHA 8
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 14, CON 13, DEX 14, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 8
AC: 26 Fort: 19 Ref: 20 Will: 24
HP: 68 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 17
TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +14, Insight +17, Perception +17, Religion +10
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Arcana +4, Bluff +3, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +7, Heal +9, History +4, Intimidate +3, Nature +9, Stealth +8, Streetwise +3, Thievery +8
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Sohei Attack: Sohei Flurry
Githzerai Racial Power: Iron Mind
Avenger Feature: Oath of Enmity
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Avenger Attack 1: Overwhelming Strike
Cleric Attack 1: Sacred Flame
Avenger Attack 1: Raging Tempest
Cleric Attack 1: Moment of Glory
Avenger Utility 2: Loyal Sanction
Cleric Attack 3: Death Surge
Avenger Attack 5: Menacing Presence
Cleric Utility 6: Bastion of Health
Avenger Attack 7: Peal of Thunder
FEATS
Level 1: Mighty Crusader Expertise
Level 1: Githzerai Blade Master
Level 2: Power of Skill
Level 4: Hybrid Talent
Level 6: Battle Awareness
Level 8: Superior Will
ITEMS
Dwarven Drakescale Armor +2 x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Amulet of Protection +2 x1
Battlecrazed Fullblade +2 x1
Symbol of Battle +1 x1
Boots of Adept Charging x1
Casque of Tactics (heroic tier) x1
Backpack (empty)
Bedroll
Adventurer's Kit
Flint and Steel
Belt Pouch (empty)
Sunrod
Waterskin
Journeybreads
Grappling Hook
Silk Rope (50 ft.)
Identification Papers with Portrait
Sacks
====== End ======
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 9:23AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2009
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Spiral Tactician is inferior to Battle Captain. There is pretty much no reason to take the former.
Since i'm super dense could you please tell me why Battle Captain is so much better than Spiral Tactician? And, if i were to go the Genasi route that would definitely be my first choice. I just liked the look and feel of the Spiral Tactician.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 9:29AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2009
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Runepriest can pump out the damage, if not the dice. They do get fiddly with all their bonuses.
Warlords tend not to roll dice themselves, but they make other's roll dice for them.
Have you considered a charging skald? (possibly pixie). Charging can get lot's of dice.
For a one shot that would be really fun but in an ongoing home campaign i don't think that would be something i would enjoy. I really can't explain why. i'm trying to avoid the charge constantly to damage sort of builds. I'm trying to define a front line for the party to work with so i don't know if the charge thing would accomplish this.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 9:35AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2009
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Question about the Hybrid Barb|Cleric. I've seen you post sample builds of this combo before and i believe you always use Human as your race choice is that just for the extra feat and Adroit explorer?
Is there another race and paragon path combo that could work for that? I looked into taking Tactical Warpriest for the Avenger|Cleric combo would that be good for the Barb|Cleric also?
I basically refuse to play the Str/Cha, Str/Con and Str/Dex races as I don't like them. And Adroit Explorer is just incredible for Thaneborn Barbarians, particularly at Epic where the following is an incredibly likely occurance:
Heal thyself for +2 to hit as a minor
Move to target
Storm of Blades or Hurricane of Blades at +2 to hit
Bloody Opponent
AP: Do Storm of Blades with +Cha to hit
Watch opponent croak.
I was just wondering if their might have been aother combo of race/pp but i agree that Human/Adroit Explorer is a great combo. Humans don't get enough love at our home game. I'm prett much the only person to have played one outside our current Blackguard|Sorc.
We are more than likely going to reach late paragon let alone epic so i never of think about my PC's much beyond the 12-16 level range.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 11:10AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2009
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could you please tell me why Battle Captain is so much better than Spiral Tactician?
Battle Captain may be one of the most powerful PPs in the entire game; it's that good. But zelink551 overstates the case a bit. Spiral Tactician is also really good and not all that far behind Battle Captain.
Battle Captain's pure awesome is based on Cry Havoc and Battle Inspiration. Cry Havoc is complete unadulterated win, but Battle Inspiration isn't as good in play as it is on paper. First off, any attack bonus tied to an X Word power can be a little tricky. If you're the only healer in the party, you should hesitate to spam Inspiring Words just for the attack bonus early in the fight for fear of needing them for the healing later on. Also, much of the bonus from Battle Inspiration can be simply wasted in an optimized party. Each increment of to-hit bonus past +3 or so drops sharply in utility if you're backing up Thiefs, most Fighters, many Wizard builds, etc.
In the meantime, Spiral Tactician's Fey Tactics suffers the exact same issue in sometimes being too much of a good thing, but at least timing is a non-issue. Spiral Timing is no Cry Havoc --- there's not another L11 feature in the game that is except Inspire by Word, Lawbreaker's Doom and Storm Adept --- but it's a very, very solid ability especially if the party includes a lockdown Wizard who couldn't spare the feat slot for Improved Initiative. (That's about 99.99% of Wizard builds in my experience.)
Both PPs have very solid if not spectacular powers. The D20 for Spiral Tactician is potentially mindblowing and tons of fun, but in practice it's usually about par with Battle Captain's much more vanilla daily.
To really milk Spiral Tactician, you want to MC Swordmage for Eladrin Swordmage Advance. That will give you 1.5 free MBAs per encounter. It combos beautifully with Fey Step Assault and is one of the few ways to build a Warlord that does decent DPR with his own blade.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 11:35AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2009
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could you please tell me why Battle Captain is so much better than Spiral Tactician?
Battle Captain may be one of the most powerful PPs in the entire game; it's that good. But zelink551 overstates the case a bit. Spiral Tactician is also really good and not all that far behind Battle Captain.
Battle Captain's pure awesome is based on Cry Havoc and Battle Inspiration. Cry Havoc is complete unadulterated win, but Battle Inspiration isn't as good in play as it is on paper. First off, any attack bonus tied to an X Word power can be a little tricky. If you're the only healer in the party, you should hesitate to spam Inspiring Words just for the attack bonus early in the fight for fear of needing them for the healing later on. Also, much of the bonus from Battle Inspiration can be simply wasted in an optimized party. Each increment of to-hit bonus past +3 or so drops sharply in utility if you're backing up Thiefs, most Fighters, many Wizard builds, etc.
In the meantime, Spiral Tactician's Fey Tactics suffers the exact same issue in sometimes being too much of a good thing, but at least timing is a non-issue. Spiral Timing is no Cry Havoc --- there's not another L11 feature in the game that is except Inspire by Word, Lawbreaker's Doom and Storm Adept --- but it's a very, very solid ability especially if the party includes a lockdown Wizard who couldn't spare the feat slot for Improved Initiative. (That's about 99.99% of Wizard builds in my experience.)
Both PPs have very solid if not spectacular powers. The D20 for Spiral Tactician is potentially mindblowing and tons of fun, but in practice it's usually about par with Battle Captain's much more vanilla daily.
To really milk Spiral Tactician, you want to MC Swordmage for Eladrin Swordmage Advance. That will give you 1.5 free MBAs per encounter. It combos beautifully with Fey Step Assault and is one of the few ways to build a Warlord that does decent DPR with his own blade.
Thanks for all that. If i'm going to try my hand at building n Eladrin Taclord then i most definitely am going to take Swordmage MC for Eladrin Swordmage Advance the Iliyanbruen Guardian theme and try to find ways to maximize my Fey step power. Add in Spiral Tactician and this seems like a pretty sweet combo. Wish this party i'm in had a front line defender though. Bringing along my own meat shield would really help out alot. Finding the stats spread alittle thin by not going Lazy. That just is not my play style.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 11:38AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2011
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was just wondering if their might have been aother combo of race/pp but i agree that Human/Adroit Explorer is a great combo. Humans don't get enough love at our home game. I'm prett much the only person to have played one outside our current Blackguard|Sorc.
We are more than likely going to reach late paragon let alone epic so i never of think about my PC's much beyond the 12-16 level range.
The alternative is a Dragonborn Mithral Arm, which isn't as good as Adroit Explorer, but has its uses.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 1:08PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2011
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I'm not going to bother to refute any of this since you all seem stuck on a PP that is worse.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 1:27PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Jan 14, 2009
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Minotaur Runepriest works well. The stats line up, the Runepriest buffs himself quite a bit, and Bloodied Ferocity ensures that you get an extra attack every combat. Take a Blood Fury weapon and you can choose which target to get your free attack on. You can definitely do some almost-striker level damage for the heroic tier.
I'm sure someone has already mentioned it, but the hybrid Cleric|Barbarian can keep people healed and do some great damage. It has a couple of advantages over the normal Barbarian: great AC, ability to use multiple dailies in a combat without feeling like you are losing out on their effects, solid enough healer. However - it's not a true leader. You won't be doing anything a leader does except for healing. Although taking Power of Skill with Righteous Might does make your opp. attacks interesting, although not really any more damaging than they would have been.
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