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12 months ago ::
Jun 22, 2012 - 10:00AM
#41
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Date Joined:
Dec 24, 2007
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Sooo ... it's cool when they do it cuz they've always done it but it's not cool when we do it cuz we're 'young'. Got it.  @KGM: I had no idea beating people to death because they liked the wrong soccer team was acceptable anywhere. Learn somethin' new everyday.  I guess that's my point. You can't justify it, you can't say 'well, it's different because'. You can't. Not when people die. Not when people throw bannanas at black players on the opposing team. So what if it's more of a hatred of the other guy than pride in yourself when those are the results?
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.Section Six Soldier Front Door of the House of Trolls If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 22, 2012 - 11:50AM
#42
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- Forum Guide
- Play-by-Post Haven
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 In my defense, I didn't actually read the article. Or, in other words, "Dude, my bad." Killing people is not OK.  I just meant that it's an interesting dynamic to see in the sporting arena - the cultural divisions and socially-acceptable forms of hatred and nationalism (not saying killing people is acceptable, but the general air of sports rivalry). But we're all messed up, I agree. People riot when their teams win OR lose (in US, in Europe, in EVERYWHERE). It's just a matter of people getting out of control and being destructive. I daresay it's human nature! 
Benevolent God of Death
"No one told you when to run."
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12 months ago ::
Jun 22, 2012 - 12:04PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Dec 24, 2007
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Yep, we suck. But we do it together! Sorta ...
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.Section Six Soldier Front Door of the House of Trolls If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 22, 2012 - 12:23PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Dec 24, 2007
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I do see what you're saying and I think it's, well, silly. Then again, it appears you do as well. Alas, we are likely treading toward an eventual thread lockdown since we are certainly getting too political for today's version of the Tavern (hence that awesome ghost town feel ) and even though I think soccer is terrible, I happen to like ADH and grehnhewe and would hate to be the cause of the obliteration of their thread. Oh, and finally - also most importantly - welcome back! It's really nice to see your informative walls o' text again. 
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.Section Six Soldier Front Door of the House of Trolls If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 22, 2012 - 12:30PM
#45
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2007
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Sorry to tell you this, but it seems like you're the one projecting In general, the European form of 'patriotism' (i.e. nationalism) is quite different, and usually a lot less annoying, than that exhibited by people from the US (though Europe is by no means a singular entity to the same extent as the US, so talking about anything specifically European is a lot harder), and racism doesn't even enter into it.
Speak for yourself, Poles are pretty similar in their displays of patriotism to Americans (you only have to replace "this glorious country" with "this ^%#$/stupid/barbaric country", but we still like it).
Hell, remember my Captain America comment earlier?
Well, check this:
Spoiler:
Show
(the first issue was awful enough to discourage me from buying any more though)
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12 months ago ::
Jun 22, 2012 - 12:34PM
#46
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2005
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The US doesn't have that kind of history. You were never made someone's bitch, you were created as someone's bitch (England's), got your independence, made up a narrative about liberating yourself (conveniently forgetting other factors, like the French help you got) so you didn't have to feel in debt to anyone, and were simply too far away for most of it to carry over afterwards.
We don't forget that the French helped us way back when. And we even forget that they, too, were impressing our sailors (one of the many causes of the War of 1812). We just figure we repaid that debt in WW1 & 2. 
Even within peaceful Scandinavia (which is what I know most about), there are patterns. Sweden won the last war, and Swedes are, politically speaking, the most tolerant, politically correct, and anti-nationalist of all of us, despite also being the most hated. Norway spent over half of the last millennium being either Sweden's or Denmark's bitch, and even today, the Norwegians (whom I love btw) have the uptight and arrogant streak of someone with a serious national inferiority complex and something to prove.
Hmm... I'm Scottish and Norweigian. That might explain a lot.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice
"My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan
This user has been brought to you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon
Buttler of the House of Trolls
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12 months ago ::
Jun 22, 2012 - 2:05PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2006
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I do see what you're saying and I think it's, well, silly. Then again, it appears you do as well.
Of course it's silly. I just have an easier time understanding (and thus accepting) it when Europeans do it against each other. To use an American reference, it's easier to understand why the Greasers become violent criminals than the Socials, because the former have had ****ed-up enough lives for it to be expected. It's not that one is better than the other, but from the outside it seems like one is more of a choice.
Oh, and finally - also most importantly - welcome back! It's really nice to see your informative walls o' text again.
Thank you, all of you. I didn't realise I'd be missed. Though taking a break was nice too, there are so many interesting places on the web to explore.
Speak for yourself, Poles are pretty similar in their displays of patriotism to Americans (you only have to replace "this glorious country" with "this ^%#$/stupid/barbaric country", but we still like it).
Hence the “Europe is by no means a singular entity to the same extent as the US”. Interestingly enough, I've often told Americans that you can easily find two European countries who both have more in common with the USA than with each other, and when I make specific suggestions, Poland is usually one of them
But still, there's quite a difference between "this glorious country" and "this ^%#$/stupid/barbaric country". It goes back to my theory that Europeans are overall more cynical.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 23, 2012 - 9:05AM
#48
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and even though I think soccer is terrible, I happen to like ADH and grehnhewe and would hate to be the cause of the obliteration of their thread.
Cheers ZB! (Although ADH and myself are probably the only ones that have any interest in the tournament, I never mind which direction or tone threads take.)
Anyways regarding nationalism and the tournament: at its worst, it can be an excuse for nationalist pride, hatred and racism to rear its ugly head beyond the scope of the game. At its best, it can be great fun to root for your team and otherwise enjoy some fantastic football with most of the best players in the world. Unforunately some people get too into it, they have a few drinks or lots of drinks, and they want to get in a fight. Some people are like that even when there is no sports involved. I have to agree though, Europe is different than the States. These are very different countries with different cultures, identities and sometimes faults among some of their citizens. There is less homgeneity than the states, but I still think there can be great differences between various states and regions in the US. American sports fans can be just as bad. Look at the riots that take place at the ends of championships, or in my state, the violence that can occur at 49er/Raider or Giants/Dodgers games for example.
When I went to watch the Champions League final last month, a group of Germans saw me wearing a Chelsea jersey and came up to me and asked where we were watching the game and somewhat apologetically said they were fans of Munich. We invited them to come watch the game with us and had a really good time watching it and having a couple of beers.
So two teams are through to the Semi finals: Germany and Portugal. Both teams look good, but I still think Germany is looking really good.
Today is Spain v. France, and tomorrow is England v. Italy. I am already nervous about my Three Lions, but they are looking better in the tournament than anyone expected. Steven Gerrard has really been stepping up as captain, and Hart the keeper has been fantastic. I just hope Balotelli is having one of his off days, he can sometimes be a bit of a nutter.
Chelsea FC - winner of 2012 FA Cup and Champions League
Champions of Europe!
Three Lions
Resident Footie
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12 months ago ::
Jun 23, 2012 - 8:17PM
#49
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Date Joined:
Apr 24, 2012
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I have removed content from this thread for a violation of the CoC. If you have any questions about the CoC or would like to read it you can find it here: company.wizards.com/conductPlease remember that we are trying to build a community that is a mutually beneficial environment for EVERYONE. Not a few or certain groups. The great thing about communities is the fact that they ARE made up of many different people from different places with different beliefs. We want everyone to be a part of this community. Be careful when discussing issues of politics and nationalism. It is okay to be proud of who you are and where you are from, but remember too that it is a very touchy subject and can quickly take a turn none of us want. Keep it clean, keep in nice, and keep it intellegent. Remember, we are all in this together! Thanks for your understanding.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 24, 2012 - 8:06AM
#50
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Oh Jeepers 
Chelsea FC - winner of 2012 FA Cup and Champions League
Champions of Europe!
Three Lions
Resident Footie
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