It begins, with Poland vs. Greece. Let's hope our team doesn't go totally koko koko euro spoko.
Discuss (I know there's at least one guy interested in soccer here).
It begins, with Poland vs. Greece. Let's hope our team doesn't go totally koko koko euro spoko.Discuss (I know there's at least one guy interested in soccer here).
It begins, with Poland vs. Greece. Let's hope our team doesn't go totally koko koko euro spoko.
Discuss (I know there's at least one guy interested in soccer here).
I think that would be me.
I will be watching todays games on and off at work. Good that Poland is in Group A...probably the tamest group. Who knows what could happen, and Poland has home advantage. I have some love for Czech Republic as Peter Cech is the keeper for my team, and he is amazing.
Anyhow....Go Poland!
My first game is Monday...England v. France. (Three Lions!)
I am a little worried about Team England...injuries, new coach, etc. etc.
I think that would be me.I will be watching todays games on and off at work. Good that Poland is in Group A...probably the tamest group. Who knows what could happen, and Poland has home advantage. I have some love for Czech Republic as Peter Cech
Ok, I bet the Euro will make it out of 2012 "alive". That is Germany will finally agree to Eurobonds and give more powers to the Europeen central bank.
It's the only way to get out of the present crisis.
Ok, I bet the Euro will make it out of 2012 "alive". That is Germany will finally agree to Eurobonds and give more powers to the Europeen central bank. It's the only way to get out of the present crisis.
Hey, don't burn France! I may know crap nothing about soccer, but I know France never loses a fight!!
Just think of Napolean!!! And you better be thanking France for the Statue of Liberty and the fries you eat next to your burger everyday!!one!eleven!!
[/ignorantpersonrant]
Hey, don't burn France! I may know crap nothing about soccer, but I know France never loses a fight!!Just think of Napolean!!! And you better be thanking France for the Statue of Liberty and the fries you eat next to your burger everyday!!one!eleven!
Hey, don't burn France! I may know crap nothing about soccer, but I know France never loses a fight!!
Just think of Napolean!!! And you better be thanking France for the Statue of Liberty and the fries you eat next to your burger everyday!!one!eleven!!
[/ignorantpersonrant]
Americans can thank France for the Revolution. France can thank Americans for WWI ... and II.
By the way, Napoleon got his ass handed to him in Russia and Hitler crushed France and it's much vaunted (but stupidly designed) Maginot line in weeks. So ... yeah. France? She loses like few others.
As far as soccer goes, who cares? Go Poland, I guess. I am Polish in heritage.
Americans can thank France for the Revolution. France can thank Americans for WWI ... and II. ;)By the way, Napoleon got his ass handed to him in Russia and Hitler crushed France and it's much vaunted (but stupidly designed) Maginot line in weeks.
I was actually reffering to English and French always being mortal enemies, but whatever The match is over, and while it started fun, ended up being kind of a pile of dull. Tough I never was much of a sports fan. The score is 1-1.
I was actually reffering to English and French always being mortal enemies, but whatever :-PThe match is over, and while it started fun, ended up being kind of a pile of dull. Tough I never was much of a sports fan.The score is 1-1.
And that's another reason soccer sucks. Ties are terrible. At least in most sports that allow them they come up pretty rarely. Soccer? Allthefriggintime.
And that's another reason soccer sucks. Ties are terrible. At least in most sports that allow them they come up pretty rarely. Soccer? Allthefriggintime.
Oh, and another thing to "thank" France for: Quebec.
You talk about soccer... and this surprises you?!As for France: Napolean got beaten down by Russia's best general, on horseback, in conditions worse than the Third Reich. Nothing wrong with that. He did lose at Waterloo, though. :duel:Oh, and anot
The match is over, and while it started fun, ended up being kind of a pile of dull. Tough I never was much of a sports fan. The score is 1-1.
At least they still got a point...too bad they weren't able to capitilise on the Greek player being sent off and lost a player themselves. Russia was looking good, they have been on a roll recently. I can't believe Peter Cech let 4 in...his defenders must have been rubbish.
So today is the Group of Death! Netherlands v. Denmark and Germany v. Portugal.
At least they still got a point...too bad they weren't able to capitilise on the Greek player being sent off and lost a player themselves. Russia was looking good, they have been on a roll recently. I can't believe Peter Cech let 4 in...his defende
Ok, I bet the Euro will make it out of 2012 "alive". That is Germany will finally agree to Eurobonds and give more powers to the Europeen central bank.
It's the only way to get out of the present crisis.
So, the game ended on a 1:1 again, but this time our team played so good they made stale Carlsberg drinkable. They were on par with the Russians and now have to win against the Czech, whom the former tore through.
So, the game ended on a 1:1 again, but this time our team played so good they made stale Carlsberg drinkable. They were on par with the Russians and now have to win against the Czech, whom the former tore through.
So, the game ended on a 1:1 again, but this time our team played so good they made stale Carlsberg drinkable. They were on par with the Russians and now have to win against the Czech, whom the former tore through.
Good show against the Russians. I thought they were looking like one of the best teams in the cup. So you guys have to beat Czech Republic, I don't think there are any other permutations.
So England came to a draw against France Yesterday. I am actually pleased with the result, considering some of the problems with the team. They play Sweden next.
(FYI There are only draws in group stage, starting with the round of 8, it goes to extra time and then a shoot out if necessary.)
Good show against the Russians. I thought they were looking like one of the best teams in the cup. So you guys have to beat Czech Republic, I don't think there are any other permutations.So England came to a draw against France Yesterday. I am act
Stoked, England beat Sweden yesterday 3-2. Great Game. Next four days are going to be really exciting with only 2 out of 16 teams knowing if they are going to the finals or not.
Stoked, England beat Sweden yesterday 3-2. Great Game. Next four days are going to be really exciting with only 2 out of 16 teams knowing if they are going to the finals or not.Sweden, Ireland: Outwww.uefa.com/uefaeuro/news/newsid=181800...
Damn, I missed it. I'm watching Poland-Czech right now and though it started nice, our team got a lot more slow later. 0:0 so far. Hope they get a second wind for the second half.
Damn, I missed it.I'm watching Poland-Czech right now and though it started nice, our team got a lot more slow later. 0:0 so far.Hope they get a second wind for the second half.
Group of Death tomorrow! Pretty sure Germany will advance...but who knows about the second spot (Denmark or Portugal?)
England plays their final group stage game on Tuesday v. Ukraine....they only need a draw.
Sorry mateGroup of Death tomorrow! Pretty sure Germany will advance...but who knows about the second spot (Denmark or Portugal?)England plays their final group stage game on Tuesday v. Ukraine....they only need a draw.
So England beats Ukraine 1-0, wins their group and advances. They play Italy next on Sunday in the group of 8.
Other games:
Germany v. Greece (Ironic) Czech Republic v. Portugal Spain v. France
So England beats Ukraine 1-0, wins their group and advances. They play Italy next on Sunday in the group of 8.Other games:Germany v. Greece (Ironic)Czech Republic v. PortugalSpain v. France
No fights on the pitch that I have seen, but there has been some fan violence. Some of the football associations have been fined for the conduct of some of these fans. I think I have heard of incidents among Russians, Poles and Croats the most. Amazing not a single English fan has been arrested yet.
No fights on the pitch that I have seen, but there has been some fan violence. Some of the football associations have been fined for the conduct of some of these fans. I think I have heard of incidents among Russians, Poles and Croats the most. Am
Man, and the Europeans consider Americans too nationalistic. Derp.
We at least pretend we get along well But yeah, plenty of jingoism in Europe too, excpet maybe in Germany (they're careful about that for some reason).
We at least pretend we get along well :-PBut yeah, plenty of jingoism in Europe too, excpet maybe in Germany (they're careful about that for some reason).
Man, and the Europeans consider Americans too nationalistic. Derp.
We at least pretend we get along well But yeah, plenty of jingoism in Europe too, excpet maybe in Germany (they're careful about that for some reason).
Cause they are superior?
We at least pretend we get along well :-PBut yeah, plenty of jingoism in Europe too, excpet maybe in Germany (they're careful about that for some reason).[/quote]Cause they are superior?
We at least pretend we get along well But yeah, plenty of jingoism in Europe too, excpet maybe in Germany (they're careful about that for some reason).
Plenty of racism, too, IIRC. Know what? I like soccer now. Cuz any time some European talks to me about ridiculous patriotism or racism here, I'll just point to the 'world's greatest sport'.
That explains it. The Europeans are just projecting.
Plenty of racism, too, IIRC. Know what? I like soccer now. Cuz any time some European talks to me about ridiculous patriotism or racism here, I'll just point to the 'world's greatest sport'. ;)That explains it. The Europeans are just projecting.
We at least pretend we get along well But yeah, plenty of jingoism in Europe too, excpet maybe in Germany (they're careful about that for some reason).
Plenty of racism, too, IIRC. Know what? I like soccer now. Cuz any time some European talks to me about ridiculous patriotism or racism here, I'll just point to the 'world's greatest sport'.
That explains it. The Europeans are just projecting.
Oi, you Americans got there from somewhere :P
The differences between American and European way of being patriotic is an interesting topic though. Nowhere else a character like Captain America could be made to be taken seriously and survive for so long.
Plenty of racism, too, IIRC. Know what? I like soccer now. Cuz any time some European talks to me about ridiculous patriotism or racism here, I'll just point to the 'world's greatest sport'. ;)That explains it. The Europeans are just projecting.
Know what? I like soccer now. Cuz any time some European talks to me about ridiculous patriotism or racism here, I'll just point to the 'world's greatest sport'.
That explains it. The Europeans are just projecting.
Sorry to tell you this, but it seems like you're the one projecting In general, the European form of 'patriotism' (i.e. nationalism) is quite different, and usually a lot less annoying, than that exhibited by people from the US (though Europe is by no means a singular entity to the same extent as the US, so talking about anything specifically European is a lot harder), and racism doesn't even enter into it.
Most of what you seem to confuse with the destructive and tacky displays of national arrogance you're familiar with, is not about the national superiority of the nation whose citizens display it. It's about national inferiority of the other nation. It's not self-love, it's other-hate. It's not that we think that our country is amazing, it's that we know that the other country is ****.
In order to understand the European mentality, you need to get rid of that glass-half-full attitude, because our people have been through things the Americans have never come close to (at least not the white ones) Think of every bad thing ever happening to your country, every national humiliation, every war you fought, every enemy you made, every atrocity you committed and then tried to justify, every national trauma, everything. Then imagine experiencing the equivalent of that over the span of less than a century. Then imagine your nation/people had at least twice as many centuries behind it as the US (and most likely more).
Of course we hate each other. And of course we're going to use sports to show it. Because our ancestors had to live with the consequences of war for too long for most of us to want to start it again, but also for too long (and too recently) for many of us to have truly forgiven the other side. So we make good of the options we get to fight each other. Danes, for instance, hate Swedes. Don't get me wrong, they're our kin and we see them almost as an extension of ourselves, but we still hate them so much that the island of Sjælland, being closer to Sweden than the rest of the country, is interchangeably referred to as “The Devil's Island” and “Reserve-Sweden” (the latter being considered by far the greatest insult). We might talk about them as our fellow Nordic brothers, but we're never more petty than when playing against them.
And we're being reasonable about it, despite the most recent Swedish atrocities against us taking place less than 400 years ago. Compare that to the Serbs who still think of Albanians as newcomers to their country, due to them (possibly) only having been there since the 11th century, instead of the 6th century like the Serbs (argument taken from a youtube comment, I make no claim to its validity, but it does fit the Serbian attitude I've heard most about even outside the internet). Seriously ZB, you can't begin to understand how gracious it is for many of those countries to only have occasional sports-fuelled riots and street fights against each other. That's like sitting in the same room with the guy who killed your mother without drawing a gun on him. No matter what else you do, that degree of restraint is actually immensely civilised, and I haven't met many Americans who could replicate it (well actually, I have, but they've mostly been Canadians ).
Europeans are, as a rule, a lot more cynical than Americans this way. It's a lot less about promoting ourselves, and a lot more about getting the other country down. While some arrogance can be found in various European nations (mostly the degenerate southern parts and the trashy eastern parts, and of course the UK, after which the US is modelled. We in the non-British north/north-west part are usually above it ), it's not really that we have overly high thoughts about ourselves like the US has, it's that we have low thoughts about everyone else. Especially our neighbours, most of whom have been ****ing us over since before the concept of America even existed
Sorry to tell you this, but it seems like you're the one projecting ;) In general, the European form of 'patriotism' (i.e. nationalism) is quite different, and usually a lot less annoying, than that exhibited by people from the US (though Europe is b
So who will be butt hurt by Erato's comments this time?
The usual?
But it is an interesting perspective on how social tensions are taken out to the sports arena - something Americans don't really see on a national scale. Sure, we have our rivalries, but in the end we're all American (mostly, but anyone who uses that is probably just being a racist). But European countries can duke it out on the soccer field where it's socially acceptable. Or outside the field, where it's kind of OK too.
PS - Hey, Erato, it's nice to see you again!
(EDIT: There is no :wave: smiley?!? This must be rectified!)
The usual? :tongue:But it is an interesting perspective on how social tensions are taken out to the sports arena - something Americans don't really see on a national scale. Sure, we have our rivalries, but in the end we're all American (mostly, but a
Sooo ... it's cool when they do it cuz they've always done it but it's not cool when we do it cuz we're 'young'. Got it.
@KGM: I had no idea beating people to death because they liked the wrong soccer team was acceptable anywhere. Learn somethin' new everyday.
I guess that's my point. You can't justify it, you can't say 'well, it's different because'. You can't. Not when people die. Not when people throw bannanas at black players on the opposing team. So what if it's more of a hatred of the other guy than pride in yourself when those are the results?
Sooo ... it's cool when they do it cuz they've always done it but it's not cool when we do it cuz we're 'young'. Got it.:-P@KGM: I had no idea beating people to death because they liked the wrong soccer team was acceptable anywhere. Learn somethin'
In my defense, I didn't actually read the article. Or, in other words, "Dude, my bad." Killing people is not OK.
I just meant that it's an interesting dynamic to see in the sporting arena - the cultural divisions and socially-acceptable forms of hatred and nationalism (not saying killing people is acceptable, but the general air of sports rivalry).
But we're all messed up, I agree. People riot when their teams win OR lose (in US, in Europe, in EVERYWHERE). It's just a matter of people getting out of control and being destructive.
I daresay it's human nature!
:rofl: In my defense, I didn't actually read the article. Or, in other words, "Dude, my bad." Killing people is not OK. :thumbsdown:I just meant that it's an interesting dynamic to see in the sporting arena - the cultural divisions and socially-accep
I do see what you're saying and I think it's, well, silly. Then again, it appears you do as well.
Alas, we are likely treading toward an eventual thread lockdown since we are certainly getting too political for today's version of the Tavern (hence that awesome ghost town feel ) and even though I think soccer is terrible, I happen to like ADH and grehnhewe and would hate to be the cause of the obliteration of their thread.
Oh, and finally - also most importantly - welcome back! It's really nice to see your informative walls o' text again.
I do see what you're saying and I think it's, well, silly. Then again, it appears you do as well. :-P Alas, we are likely treading toward an eventual thread lockdown since we are certainly getting too political for today's version of the Tavern (h
Sorry to tell you this, but it seems like you're the one projecting In general, the European form of 'patriotism' (i.e. nationalism) is quite different, and usually a lot less annoying, than that exhibited by people from the US (though Europe is by no means a singular entity to the same extent as the US, so talking about anything specifically European is a lot harder), and racism doesn't even enter into it.
Speak for yourself, Poles are pretty similar in their displays of patriotism to Americans (you only have to replace "this glorious country" with "this ^%#$/stupid/barbaric country", but we still like it). Hell, remember my Captain America comment earlier? Well, check this: Spoiler:Show
(the first issue was awful enough to discourage me from buying any more though)
Speak for yourself, Poles are pretty similar in their displays of patriotism to Americans (you only have to replace "this glorious country" with "this ^%#$/stupid/barbaric country", but we still like it).Hell, remember my Captain America comment earl
The US doesn't have that kind of history. You were never made someone's bitch, you were created as someone's bitch (England's), got your independence, made up a narrative about liberating yourself (conveniently forgetting other factors, like the French help you got) so you didn't have to feel in debt to anyone, and were simply too far away for most of it to carry over afterwards.
We don't forget that the French helped us way back when. And we even forget that they, too, were impressing our sailors (one of the many causes of the War of 1812). We just figure we repaid that debt in WW1 & 2.
Even within peaceful Scandinavia (which is what I know most about), there are patterns. Sweden won the last war, and Swedes are, politically speaking, the most tolerant, politically correct, and anti-nationalist of all of us, despite also being the most hated. Norway spent over half of the last millennium being either Sweden's or Denmark's bitch, and even today, the Norwegians (whom I love btw) have the uptight and arrogant streak of someone with a serious national inferiority complex and something to prove.
Hmm... I'm Scottish and Norweigian. That might explain a lot.
We don't forget that the French helped us way back when. And we even forget that they, too, were impressing our sailors (one of the many causes of the War of 1812). We just figure we repaid that debt in WW1 & 2. :tiphat:Hmm... I'm Scottish and Nor
I do see what you're saying and I think it's, well, silly. Then again, it appears you do as well.
Of course it's silly. I just have an easier time understanding (and thus accepting) it when Europeans do it against each other. To use an American reference, it's easier to understand why the Greasers become violent criminals than the Socials, because the former have had ****ed-up enough lives for it to be expected. It's not that one is better than the other, but from the outside it seems like one is more of a choice.
Speak for yourself, Poles are pretty similar in their displays of patriotism to Americans (you only have to replace "this glorious country" with "this ^%#$/stupid/barbaric country", but we still like it).
Hence the “Europe is by no means a singular entity to the same extent as the US”. Interestingly enough, I've often told Americans that you can easily find two European countries who both have more in common with the USA than with each other, and when I make specific suggestions, Poland is usually one of them
But still, there's quite a difference between "this glorious country" and "this ^%#$/stupid/barbaric country". It goes back to my theory that Europeans are overall more cynical.
Of course it's silly. I just have an easier time understanding (and thus accepting) it when Europeans do it against each other. To use an American reference, it's easier to understand why the Greasers become violent criminals than the Socials, becaus
and even though I think soccer is terrible, I happen to like ADH and grehnhewe and would hate to be the cause of the obliteration of their thread.
Cheers ZB! (Although ADH and myself are probably the only ones that have any interest in the tournament, I never mind which direction or tone threads take.)
Anyways regarding nationalism and the tournament: at its worst, it can be an excuse for nationalist pride, hatred and racism to rear its ugly head beyond the scope of the game. At its best, it can be great fun to root for your team and otherwise enjoy some fantastic football with most of the best players in the world. Unforunately some people get too into it, they have a few drinks or lots of drinks, and they want to get in a fight. Some people are like that even when there is no sports involved. I have to agree though, Europe is different than the States. These are very different countries with different cultures, identities and sometimes faults among some of their citizens. There is less homgeneity than the states, but I still think there can be great differences between various states and regions in the US. American sports fans can be just as bad. Look at the riots that take place at the ends of championships, or in my state, the violence that can occur at 49er/Raider or Giants/Dodgers games for example.
When I went to watch the Champions League final last month, a group of Germans saw me wearing a Chelsea jersey and came up to me and asked where we were watching the game and somewhat apologetically said they were fans of Munich. We invited them to come watch the game with us and had a really good time watching it and having a couple of beers.
So two teams are through to the Semi finals: Germany and Portugal. Both teams look good, but I still think Germany is looking really good.
Today is Spain v. France, and tomorrow is England v. Italy. I am already nervous about my Three Lions, but they are looking better in the tournament than anyone expected. Steven Gerrard has really been stepping up as captain, and Hart the keeper has been fantastic. I just hope Balotelli is having one of his off days, he can sometimes be a bit of a nutter.
Cheers ZB! (Although ADH and myself are probably the only ones that have any interest in the tournament, I never mind which direction or tone threads take.)Anyways regarding nationalism and the tournament: at its worst, it can be an excuse for natio
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Well the England boys go out on penalties! It is a English tradition at least! Have to wait until Rio now!
Me sad today
You are right about tradition...going out on penalties and losing to the Italians. Oh well, at least they played better in the tournament than everyone expected, and I thought it was a pretty good game. Still the olympics too...Lampard may be called to play since he did not play in the Euros. Yeah other than that it's going to be a long two years until Brazil.
So final four: Spain v. Portugal and Italy v. Germany.
I still think it is going to be Germany. (That is of course if Spain, Portugal and Italy still want the money)
Me sad todayYou are right about tradition...going out on penalties and losing to the Italians. Oh well, at least they played better in the tournament than everyone expected, and I thought it was a pretty good game. Still the olympics too...Lampard
So the final is Sunday, Spain v. Italy. Ironic that the day after favoured Germany is knocked out of the tournament, Germany agrees to bail out the Italian and Spanish banks. Should be a good game.
Go Italy (I really don't want to deal with my Spanish friends if they win three international tournaments in a row.)
So the final is Sunday, Spain v. Italy. Ironic that the day after favoured Germany is knocked out of the tournament, Germany agrees to bail out the Italian and Spanish banks. Should be a good game.Go Italy (I really don't want to deal with my Spani
4:0 for Spain. I feel bad for grehnhewe already.It's nice to see teams that really know how to play. Though the result may indicate it, the match wasn't really one-sided.And as a closing word:Spoiler:
Show
It's nice to see teams that really know how to play. Though the result may indicate it, the match wasn't really one-sided.
Just got back from watching the game.
Don't need to feel too bad....I have had a good year as football goes, and the last two goals were scored by Chelsea players! It would have been a much better game if Italy had not gone down a man, but it was good. Spain is really a machine right now...They are comparatively young and they will still be a serious threat next world cup.
Now comes the football drougHt...no real football until August....looking forward to the Supercup (Chelsea v. Atletico Madrid)
Nice pic ADH
Just got back from watching the game. Don't need to feel too bad....I have had a good year as football goes, and the last two goals were scored by Chelsea players! It would have been a much better game if Italy had not gone down a man, but it was go
Just glad Italy didn't won. There fans are the worse. Both Spain and Italy's fans are dbags (literally), but Spain's fans have more class.
I feel apathetic towards the fans of both these teams. Not a lot of Italy fans where I live, but I have a couple Spanish friends and all the folks I know from Mexico and beyond typically favour Spain in these types of competitions.
Funnily enough, Ireland received some kind of UEFA award for their fans not being dbags.
I feel apathetic towards the fans of both these teams. Not a lot of Italy fans where I live, but I have a couple Spanish friends and all the folks I know from Mexico and beyond typically favour Spain in these types of competitions.Funnily enough, Ir
A lot of the countries have been spanked somewhat recently for the behavior of their fans. Teams and/or their fans can be banned or fined for dbag incidences. England and Italy come to mind.
I am surprised as youA lot of the countries have been spanked somewhat recently for the behavior of their fans. Teams and/or their fans can be banned or fined for dbag incidences. England and Italy come to mind.
)
In my defense, I didn't actually read the article. Or, in other words, "Dude, my bad." Killing people is not OK. 
)
