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12 months ago ::
Jun 26, 2012 - 11:26AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2012
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my last combat encounter in the session i played lasted 7 hours if not 8. we have a pursuit avenger with the favored soul PP, a fighter with the snapping tsuedo PP, a assassin with the PP that lets you use the shadowblade and gloom shards, A Sentinel Druid ( i think thats the leader druid?) not for sure what her PP is. and a Monk with the Celestial Tiger PP. We are all level 12, we fought against 2 helmed horrors (Level 18 Elite Soldiers)
2 wild hunt hounds (Level 21 Skirmishers) 2 Rot harbringers (Level 20 Soldiers) and 1 Nightwalker(Level 20 Elite Brute), And had it not been for someone had to go to bed there were gonna be more. Not for sure if the DM was in the wrong for throwing us against such crazy monsters at our level. or congratulate us for overcoming them, they hounds locked me down (the Avenger) cause im built around teleporting and mobility in combat. i get where i need to be to help my friends or drop a monster off a cliff. and Everything locked down the assassins posions which he has alot built around. was a harrowing encounter for sure.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 26, 2012 - 2:14PM
#32
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Honestly, one of the biggest issues with 4e is that fleeing is very difficult. Players look at the map, look at their powers, and (usually rightly) assume that it's going to be easier for them to slog through the fight than it is to get the entire party disengaged from the enemy, much less actually escape it. Maybe that's realistic, but it isn't fun, and it makes it extremely difficult for a DM to "encourage" players to flee. To this end, I highly recommend the "battle status phase" presented in Fight or Flight. Stun is simply not fun. Dominate is slightly better, so long as the DM lets you roll. I'm okay with Immobilize, as there's always a chance you'll need to bust out some sub-par melee or ranged combat skills. The 'save before your turn' thing seems like a good houserule for the Stun condition.
Admittedly, this is "What's a player to do?" not "What's a DM to do?", but Mike Shea has some handy advice in this regard: Making Stun and Dominate Not Suck (there's also a version for monsters linked therein, neither requires houseruling).
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12 months ago ::
Jun 30, 2012 - 3:40PM
#33
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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Some DM's get kicks off of TPK. They view it as a badge of honor. I was at a venue where the DM shouted out TPK. I don't think she did it on purpose, but I do believe that was the last time her group met.
Sometimes my DM would give us hard battles and we would dominate. Other times he would give us easy fights that we would botch every single attack. The goal of a DM should not be a TPK.
My bro-in-law ran an adventure around when Spell Jammer came out. My brother and I got special powers and the other 6 players did not. First combat was an arena fight and we were vastly outmatched. 6 players were killed in the first round. My brother hid so he could not attack or be attacked. I could do something, but a little math told me I would die first. I didn't feel like slugging through 40-60 rounds of combat to die. We went and played NES.
In another case we snuck up on a horde of orcs. (1e). We didn't think we could do it so we left. (Turns out the module had special rules which would make it possible. The DM told me about that a couple days latter.)
In your case it was a module. I wouldn't worry about it. If it happens multiple times it might be time for a chat with the DM.
I started playing D&D in the 80's. I've played D&D, 1e, 2e, and 3.xe (and many other RPGs). I also played Magic since it came out (except for a few years around the change of the millennium. I say this so you know a bit of my experience, not because I care about editions.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 30, 2012 - 4:34PM
#34
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Admittedly, this is "What's a player to do?" not "What's a DM to do?", but Mike Shea has some handy advice in this regard: Making Stun and Dominate Not Suck (there's also a version for monsters linked therein, neither requires houseruling).
Actually, at least the PC-centered article requires houseruling (and even says so in the article...) At any rate, I do not agree. Main reason: the person who wrote this article does not know the current rules for 4e - Dominate no longer dazes (and it hasn't in a long time) and the article was written in 2011.
Now, that article is all the author's opinions of why stun or dominate suck, and that's perfectly fine. However, Stun is meant as a roadblock on whichever side of the battle it's used. It's supposed to stop an enemy from being a meaningful threat. If the enemy still gets to attack and move unimpeeded, then it's still a meaningful threat.
Also, Dominate is (usually) meant to give team monster a bit more OOMPH during a combat (or team PC if it's a power being used by a PC, obviously.) Making the dominated creature immediately move away and attack it's nearest ally does something wrong: the creature who did the dominating won't get to make an OA since it's that creature's turn. The only really wrong way to use dominate is to make the PC waste his or her turn by throwing his weapon away. NOTE: most monsters don't have weapons which can be thrown away, so PCs cannot usually "abuse" dominate in this way.
Also, I'm not sure how many people get "frustrated or angry" when their character gets stunned or dominated. If they are getting angry about it, at the least, they need to seek professional help. I can understand them getting frustrated, especially if the monster (or PC) can dominate or stun at-will, but the answer to this is to not be a douche DM - don't target the same PC every turn with the stun or dominate powers.
This article didn't touch on DAZE, though ... which I find odd, considering daze is a much more common status to have to endure than either dominate or stun.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 30, 2012 - 5:38PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Nov 22, 2005
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So I experienced my first TPK as a player tonight which led to an argument at the table about the GMs style. I've been playing about 2 years and never have been TPKed though I've had some really close calls that you pull off by the skin of your teeth. When I GM I try to avoid them for the party unless they do something incredibly dumb, if not I'll pull a few punches in the end. Here's the basic story, I'd like to know if this is just one of those things or was the GM a little heavy handed?
Party was:
1) TWF ranger level 15
2) Prescient Bard - more of an immediate interrupt controller with some wizard stuff than leader
3) another bard that was specced heals
4) a fighter
Basically we had 5 monsters. I was the ranger and came out and obliterated 2 in a couple turns with an AP and some good rolls. The next went down to focus fire. The last two were pretty nasty. One had an at will close blast 5 save ends that says you have one action on your turn and it is to target the closest creature to you with a melee basic. He locked the fighter and healer bard down with that every turn by hitting them with it and then making sure they were closer to each other than to the monster. The other had an at will immobilize. he immobilized my ranger and moved away from me and kept me there mid field and useless for 4-5 rounds with no end in sight. During that time he focus fired me with both monsters with the stated goal of "KOing the ranger until he had no healing surges and the bards had no heals left." I was down 4 surges, the bards were out of healing, I'd been KOed 4 times and the defender and leader had spent most of the fight beating on each other. If we ran we would have to leave half the party behind so not really an option. We finally just said lets call it after 3 hours of running 1 battle, exhausting all dailies, all tricks, etc. It was a published D&D mod so its not like he threw something crazy at us but it just seemed like he used the monsters in a way that would totally screw the party over.
I know from my experience as a DM that you can usually TPK if you want to. I can come in with eveything and focus fire the leader then blitz the strikers or look at the monsters powers and know that I can counter the players easily with a certain combo. I just kinda thought most DMs chose not to do that so it would be a fun adventure.
It was just a bad day for you guys. However know one likes their character dying in a game.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 01, 2012 - 12:28AM
#36
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What's the big deal about a thousand rolls of toilet paper? Sure, that's a little excessive for most households...
And if your gaming session breaks down into players going into another room to play video games, that's a clue that the DM was doing something wrong.
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Bow down, my subjects, for I am your master! Yesss.....
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For some reason, none of my friends were surprised by this...
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 9:34AM
#37
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I hate to necro a thread and be the noob here but what does TPK stand for. Obvioulsy it means death but what does the acronym represent?
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 9:43AM
#38
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I hate to necro a thread and be the noob here but what does TPK stand for. Obvioulsy it means death but what does the acronym represent?
Total Party Kill.
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