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12 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 3:33PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Jun 26, 2010
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Of course balance is important in a long running game. Every player needs to feel they are contributing in and out of combat in a meaningfull way.
Don't let one class do another classes gimic better just by casting a spell.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 3:44PM
#22
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JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED A PROBLEM DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE PROBLEM DOES NOT EXIST
Exmple: I have a car. I receive a recall notice saying that some cars of my Make & Model have had a problem where the whels come off and the car flips over into oncoming trafic.
Just because I haven't experienced this problem doesn't make other people's experiences less valid, or any less relevant to me.
Repeating yoru self doesnt help in a argument.
A bit of disbalance can be funn. But in the end its indeed the players that need to diside. Its mostly about do the feel genereic or work generic. In essense to make the system work (look at 3.5) you have the work generic. The get to hit, new skills and feats.
The wizard gets spells and few bonus feats. The fighter gets a owsome 2 hit and trough the feats he can specilise in the awsome treatning and conforming fichter that can protect the caster so he can do that one Big spell so that the boss gets distracted (bad example maybe but you get the drifft).
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12 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 3:46PM
#23
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JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED A PROBLEM DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE PROBLEM DOES NOT EXIST
Exmple: I have a car. I receive a recall notice saying that some cars of my Make & Model have had a problem where the whels come off and the car flips over into oncoming trafic.
Just because I haven't experienced this problem doesn't make other people's experiences less valid, or any less relevant to me.
Repeating yoru self doesnt help in a argument.
A bit of disbalance can be funn. But in the end its indeed the players that need to diside. Its mostly about do the feel genereic or work generic. In essense to make the system work (look at 3.5) you have the work generic. The get to hit, new skills and feats.
The wizard gets spells and few bonus feats. The fighter gets a owsome 2 hit and trough the feats he can specilise in the awsome treatning and conforming fichter that can protect the caster so he can do that one Big spell so that the boss gets distracted (bad example maybe but you get the drifft).
when people say that "a bit of disbalance can be fun." I really think they might mean "a bit of variety can be fun." because variety has nothing to do with balance, even though they packaged the powers up the same in 4E and it read like the same thing. Go check out essentials and then come back and tell us how 4E was the same all around.
Those that think a bit of disbalance can be fun and actually mean disbalance are usually those players that like lording it over other players and being the only hero in a group of commoners...
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12 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 3:50PM
#24
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when people say that "a bit of disbalance can be fun." I really think they might mean "a bit of variety can be fun." because variety has nothing to do with balance, even though they packaged the powers up the same in 4E and it read like the same thing. Go check out essentials and then come back and tell us how 4E was the same all around.
Those that think a bit of disbalance can be fun and actually mean disbalance are usually those players that like lording it over other players and being the only hero in a group of commoners...
I read the essentials. But what I mean with disbalance may be indeed be wrongly interpeted.
Disbalnce I see the flolwing I see a figher alwasy haveing a better meelee to hit then a wizard. And that a fichter focusd on range weapons having a hig dex.
But that means he secrafised his melee to hit. that kind of disbalance..
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12 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 3:51PM
#25
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Date Joined:
May 31, 2012
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Balance need not be total, and identical, everywhere. But it needs to be there overall.
The thief [I've never liked the term 'rogue' for a combat/trapfinding guy, keep the term for your bards and other conment] shines outside of combat, where constant applications of his skills and experience mean he's all but de-facto party-leader when it comes to navigating the sleazier underbelly or deciding what's safe or not, and what's lootable or not down in the dungeons. There's a lot to be said for having a guy that knows what things are worth around. Of course, he couldn't hope to outfight a knight or fighter, he's got the tools to bug out, but unless he was able to shank him in the negatives before the big armored death machine knew the thief was there, he's either running or torn apart.
The fighter can dish it out as well as he can take it. If someone needs to be wrestling a bear, he's there. If someone needs to kill a dragon from the inside, been there, done that, got the armor. Lots of aimed blows, occasional defensive bypasses, so long as we're not dealing in magic, and something needs to die, he knows where to hit, he knows what to cut. I'm certainly of the opinion that he should be allowed a couple of cheap-shots against opponents, rather than needing whole feat lines just to be allowed to free-topple on an attack. Sure, twice a day he can double-action surge, but other times, he's trying to cut your legs out, after sending an arrow at your mage. People LISTEN to him in combat.
The Cleric is not necessarily a Mobile Infantry Combat Healing and Ressucitation Unit. He is, however, a walking conduit of his belief system, and you don't need nearly as much healing if you're all avoiding or absorbing part of the damage anyways. A thief can cut his throat, and even with his buffs he can't stand toe to toe with a fighter for more than just a moment, though he can hold him off a little while, but if need be he's got tons of help to call upon.
Mages should not be as good a fighter with a simple spell [or summoning one] than a fighter, can rarely do more than the most basic of stablizing or regenerative healing magics, and certainly can't make a thief obsolete, but if its magic, its their job, and when it comes to combat, they're either severely debilitating a single target, [hopefully in stages of stacking applications that are hard to resist but take a while, instead of instant SoD] or applying significant, but moderate, damage to a group.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 3:55PM
#26
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Balance need not be total, and identical, everywhere. But it needs to be there overall.
The thief [I've never liked the term 'rogue' for a combat/trapfinding guy, keep the term for your bards and other conment] shines outside of combat, where constant applications of his skills and experience mean he's all but de-facto party-leader when it comes to navigating the sleazier underbelly or deciding what's safe or not, and what's lootable or not down in the dungeons. There's a lot to be said for having a guy that knows what things are worth around. Of course, he couldn't hope to outfight a knight or fighter, he's got the tools to bug out, but unless he was able to shank him in the negatives before the big armored death machine knew the thief was there, he's either running or torn apart.
The fighter can dish it out as well as he can take it. If someone needs to be wrestling a bear, he's there. If someone needs to kill a dragon from the inside, been there, done that, got the armor. Lots of aimed blows, occasional defensive bypasses, so long as we're not dealing in magic, and something needs to die, he knows where to hit, he knows what to cut. I'm certainly of the opinion that he should be allowed a couple of cheap-shots against opponents, rather than needing whole feat lines just to be allowed to free-topple on an attack. Sure, twice a day he can double-action surge, but other times, he's trying to cut your legs out, after sending an arrow at your mage. People LISTEN to him in combat.
The Cleric is not necessarily a Mobile Infantry Combat Healing and Ressucitation Unit. He is, however, a walking conduit of his belief system, and you don't need nearly as much healing if you're all avoiding or absorbing part of the damage anyways. A thief can cut his throat, and even with his buffs he can't stand toe to toe with a fighter for more than just a moment, though he can hold him off a little while, but if need be he's got tons of help to call upon.
Mages should not be as good a fighter with a simple spell [or summoning one] than a fighter, can rarely do more than the most basic of stablizing or regenerative healing magics, and certainly can't make a thief obsolete, but if its magic, its their job, and when it comes to combat, they're either severely debilitating a single target, [hopefully in stages of stacking applications that are hard to resist but take a while, instead of instant SoD] or applying significant, but moderate, damage to a group.
This is what im talking about a +1 on this one 
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12 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 4:38PM
#27
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That basically describes 4e...
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12 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 4:47PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2008
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when people say that "a bit of disbalance can be fun." I really think they might mean "a bit of variety can be fun." because variety has nothing to do with balance, even though they packaged the powers up the same in 4E and it read like the same thing. Go check out essentials and then come back and tell us how 4E was the same all around.
Those that think a bit of disbalance can be fun and actually mean disbalance are usually those players that like lording it over other players and being the only hero in a group of commoners...
I read the essentials. But what I mean with disbalance may be indeed be wrongly interpeted.
Disbalnce I see the flolwing I see a figher alwasy haveing a better meelee to hit then a wizard. And that a fichter focusd on range weapons having a hig dex.
But that means he secrafised his melee to hit. that kind of disbalance..
That's not disbalance.
That's balance.
Ahh, so THIS is where I can add a sig.
Remember: Killing an ancient God inside of a pyramid IS a Special Occasion, and thus, ladies should be dipping into their Special Occasions underwear drawer.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 4:49PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2011
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Balance should be attempted, but I don't think it can ever be truly achieved if each PC is going to be special at something unique.
How can you equate being awesome with an axe with being a master at opening doors and picking locks? How can you equate being able to bring a character back from the brink of death, with the ability to cast a burning spray of fire that can injure multiple opponents? How can you equate having the ability to protect an ally once per round (insuring that an attack against it is done at a disadvantage) to being able to re-roll any roll for or against you 2x per day (halfling "Lucky")?
Most players play a PC because they want a specific feel or roleplaying experience. Each class should have a number of options and some cool powers that are different. If the PC feels like something I'd want to play (and it is unique) that's really all I can ask for.
Unfortunately, in a game where ultimately players will be able to pick and choose what race and class, background and theme they want, I'm sure there will always be issues with balance. The only way to control these issues would be to preset the races and classes and not allow any tinkering. That would create a much worse game in my opinion.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 4:53PM
#30
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That basically describes 4e...
Like 4e except where it says “shines outside of combat”.
In 4e, it is important for every character to be able to shine in combat.
4e is amazing in this regard. I can be in a team of five adventurers. Each adventurer has a different fighting style, and functions differently in the battle. Each one feels extremely different. One can be an evasive Sorcerer who is difficult to hit and who blasts from a distance. The other can be a Barbarian to charges head-first into the next target. One can be a staunch Warden who controls an area. And so on. Yet all can put the hurt on the monsters, especially when the team is working together optimally.
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