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12 months ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 10:02PM
#621
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No, it doesn't depend on any of that. An animal companion is inferior to a PC. Period. No amount of math or mechanical breakdowns will ever make it otherwise.
Huh. So you're saying you don't care about the math or the fact that it is possible, it doesn't happen because you say so? This is literally the equivalent of shoving your fingers in your ears and shouting "lalalala not listening!"
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12 months ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 10:05PM
#622
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2007
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No, it's admitting reality. Just like no amount of math or mechanics will ever make fighters obselete compared to casters. There is no superior choice - old edition casters were not superior to fighters, and neither were their animal companions.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 10:08PM
#623
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2007
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No, it's admitting reality. Just like no amount of math or mechanics will ever make fighters obselete compared to casters. There is no superior choice - old edition casters were not superior to fighters, and neither were their animal companions.
That's...not how math works, my friend.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 10:08PM
#624
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No, it's admitting reality. Just like no amount of math or mechanics will ever make fighters obselete compared to casters. There is no superior choice - old edition casters were not superior to fighters, and neither were their animal companions.
Please tell me you're just trolling. Ignoring math and honest comparisons makes something reality? You live in some fantasy world where 3e fighters were actually good and animal companions always suck. That's great. That isn't however representative of how the game works.
Or are you trying to say "This isn't how it is in AD&D and that's what I play, so it didn't happen"? Because we're very clearly discussing 3.5 mechanics, so how things worked in old D&D doesn't matter one whit in the discussion.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 10:16PM
#625
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2007
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I'm discussing both 3rd and PF, and fighters don't get obseleted in either. (Content Removed) ( ORC_Chaos: Edited-Trolling and Edition Warring are against the Code of Conduct)
Moderated by
ORC_Chaos
on Jun 06, 2012 - 11:00PM
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12 months ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 11:10PM
#626
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That said, at equal levels, some abilities the fighter has should mitigate the combat. I think if the fighter is in toe-to-toe with the wizard, the fighter (or Rogue, or Priest) should rightly kick the skirt off the wizard. Getting to toe-to-toe range is where the challenge should lie, because on your way over there, the Wiz is going to unleash the Abyss on you.
But at the same time, it should not be impossible. Just a challenge. So a spell like 3e forcecage is right out.
The possibility of the actions would be on the fighter. Picking the right time, place, range etc... to do it. If we are talking a clear field (no cover), a high level mage (say they are both 15-20), and the mage is prepared for the fight (has to be - all things being equal the fighter is), then: its a suicide run!
The fighter would have to hope that he/she had enough hit points to absorb whatever damage the mage was to unleash, and be able to reach the mage. During those "getting to the mage" rounds however, that fighter is in a crap-storm. That is the balance. The second that mage gets into melee, it's just about game over.
Think of the mage more like artillery, in essence that is what they are. If it didn't work, military(s) wouldn't use it. It is enormously successful and they don't get "sight auto-targeting".
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12 months ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 11:14PM
#627
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The possibility of the actions would be on the fighter. Picking the right time, place, range etc... to do it. If we are talking a clear field (no cover), a high level mage (say they are both 15-20), and the mage is prepared for the fight (has to be - all things being equal the fighter is), then: its a suicide run!
The fighter would have to hope that he/she had enough hit points to absorb whatever damage the mage was to unleash, and be able to reach the mage. During those "getting to the mage" rounds however, that fighter is in a crap-storm. That is the balance. The second that mage gets into melee, it's just about game over.
Think of the mage more like artillery, in essence that is what they are. If it didn't work, military(s) wouldn't use it. It is enormously successful and they don't get "sight auto-targeting".
Are we talking about what the game should be here, or what it is? Because if we're talking about what it should be, then sure okay.
In terms of what the game is though, that Fighter gets within charge range of the Wizard, and he teleports another 1000ft away. Assuming the Wizard doesn't just use a spell that stops the Fighter from moving, or otherwise incapacitate/kill him while completely ignoring the Fighter's AC/HP.
And then after all is said and done, if the Fighter somehow manages to close in melee with the Wizard, the wizard might have abrupt jaunt and suddenly be somewhere else anyway. He might have a contingent spell up. He probably has several defensive buffs up, giving him 50% miss chance and some damage reduction at the very least.
It's really not a winnable fight for the Fighter unless he starts within 5 ft of the Wizard with both of them locked in an antimagic field.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 11:19PM
#628
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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The possibility of the actions would be on the fighter. Picking the right time, place, range etc... to do it. If we are talking a clear field (no cover), a high level mage (say they are both 15-20), and the mage is prepared for the fight (has to be - all things being equal the fighter is), then: its a suicide run!
The fighter would have to hope that he/she had enough hit points to absorb whatever damage the mage was to unleash, and be able to reach the mage. During those "getting to the mage" rounds however, that fighter is in a crap-storm. That is the balance. The second that mage gets into melee, it's just about game over.
Think of the mage more like artillery, in essence that is what they are. If it didn't work, military(s) wouldn't use it. It is enormously successful and they don't get "sight auto-targeting".
Are we talking about what the game should be here, or what it is? Because if we're talking about what it should be, then sure okay.
In terms of what the game is though, that Fighter gets within charge range of the Wizard, and he teleports another 1000ft away. Assuming the Wizard doesn't just use a spell that stops the Fighter from moving, or otherwise incapacitate/kill him while completely ignoring the Fighter's AC/HP.
And then after all is said and done, if the Fighter somehow manages to close in melee with the Wizard, the wizard might have abrupt jaunt and suddenly be somewhere else anyway. He might have a contingent spell up. He probably has several defensive buffs up, giving him 50% miss chance and some damage reduction at the very least.
It's really not a winnable fight for the Fighter unless he starts within 5 ft of the Wizard with both of them locked in an antimagic field.
Or if he really wants t be a jerk he can drop a Forcecage on him when he gets close enough, then spend as much time as he needs picking out which SoD he's going to use before finally deciding to just drop a CLoudkill in there with him and watch him slowly die from CON damage IF he makes his save.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 11:20PM
#629
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Are we talking about what the game should be here, or what it is? Because if we're talking about what it should be, then sure okay.
In terms of what the game is though, that Fighter gets within charge range of the Wizard, and he teleports another 1000ft away. Assuming the Wizard doesn't just use a spell that stops the Fighter from moving, or otherwise incapacitate/kill him while completely ignoring the Fighter's AC/HP.
And then after all is said and done, if the Fighter somehow manages to close in melee with the Wizard, the wizard might have abrupt jaunt and suddenly be somewhere else anyway. He might have a contingent spell up. He probably has several defensive buffs up, giving him 50% miss chance and some damage reduction at the very least.
It's really not a winnable fight for the Fighter unless he starts within 5 ft of the Wizard with both of them locked in an antimagic field.
I fully agree - suicide run! But giving the punchers chance, for sake of argument. I'm old school D&D, I'm not big on the "balance of things". I accept that at low levels the mage holds the torch, and at high levels the fighter does.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 11:26PM
#630
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Or if he really wants t be a jerk he can drop a Forcecage on him when he gets close enough, then spend as much time as he needs picking out which SoD he's going to use before finally deciding to just drop a CLoudkill in there with him and watch him slowly die from CON damage IF he makes his save.
No, that's being efficient. Being a jerk is then using Sending or some other long range contact spell (can't think of any offhand) to contact his other mage friends, having them teleport in, so they can start a betting pool as to how many rounds the Fighter will live. (Will he fail his save on round 1? Round 3? Round 5? How long will his con hold out at 1d4 per round? Remember losing that con lowers the fort save for the next round! Place your bets guys, this will be entertaining!)
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