Just some general problems after playtest from 12 year DM / Game-Master-Of-Many-RPGs and group of dedicated players to the hobby...
1. NO XP RULES MENTIONED! - on last night game we didn't know is XP for enocunters is to get to every PC, or splited between them. BIG problem.
2. No Aligment even mentioned in "How to Play" - even if all players known the system, I myself was suprised to see them in stats of monster. Even only menitoned in next iteration of playtest would be good, to know it repercusions.
3. Suprise rules - the flat -20 on Initative isn't cool and only makes mess in rooster. Certin Advantage/Disadvantage should be applied here. Even with odds and many disadnatages, supriser should have onfirst action Advantage, and suprised, even with many advanateges, should have Disadvantage. You are, after all, suprised, isn;t it? If both parties suprised - both get Disadvantage.
4. Armour - heavy armour isn't penelzizde your Dexterity. On the other hand, so low diffrance in AC makes taking heavy armour unattractive - you loose dexterity mod and you only get 1 point of AC.
5. Combat manouvers and Advantage/Disadvantage - charge, group atack, atack of oportunity, etc.
6. Monsters are too weak / PCs are to strong - I understand that Goblins or even Hobgoblins hsould go wth one attack of 1stlevel charcters. But when 5 PCs on 1st level kill Ogre without any serious wound, I think it's problem...
7. ... especialy as one of them has Ray of Frost as minor spell - in now version, Ray of Forst is immobilizng target when hit on the AC.But clearly, spellshould be on Dextertiy Saving Throw. In now version it's just too powerful.
8. Clerics can't change they spells in to healings - wierd one, cause healing spells are fundamnet of this class. PCs shold focus on other prayers to gods ( i.e. spells ) and revert to healing only if they needed.
9. Illogical equipment - like Cleric of Pelor didn't have mace, only quaterstuff.
10. Long rest - Is it only me to see that long rest with "full HP and all HD" is too much?! Think of it on long term - at levels 5-10 it will be redciulous when you fight couple of hours, lost tens of HPs, go to sleep on 8 hours and you are totally heal?! I would try to let long rest made 1/3 of HPs and full HD, so to truly "cure", character would need to spend 3 consequential days. And this is still to "movie-like" to me...
1. NO XP RULES MENTIONED! - on last night game we didn't know is XP for enocunters is to get to every PC, or splited between them. BIG problem.
It's not a HUGE problem since when you look at the numbers it becomes obvious the experience is the total amount to be split among the party members. (eg There are encounters which have over 2000 exp reward listed which if you gave that amount to every character would instantly level them from 1st to second level. Clearly that amount is supposed to be divided up among the characters in the party.)
But yes, for clarity the module should explicitly say something like "the experience reward is the amount of experience to be split evenly among characters in the party after they defeat the encounter."
3. Suprise rules - the flat -20 on Initative isn't cool and only makes mess in rooster. Certin Advantage/Disadvantage should be applied here. Even with odds and many disadnatages, supriser should have onfirst action Advantage, and suprised, even with many advanateges, should have Disadvantage. You are, after all, suprised, isn;t it? If both parties suprised - both get Disadvantage.
On the flip side going last in the first round of combat is already a pretty big disadvantage since you will take attacks from all the opponents before you even get to do anything. Adding in advantage/disadvantage might be overkill. (Or it might not be, I won't pretend to have analyzed the numbers or anything. I'm just saying it's not immediately obvious that there needs to be an additional bonus for surprise other than automatically going first.)
5. Combat manouvers and Advantage/Disadvantage - charge, group atack, atack of oportunity, etc.
Sorry, I'm not sure what you were you trying to say here. Are you saying there needs to be rules for charging and attacks of opprotunity and group attacks?
If so I agree there should be something that provides incentive for combatants to not just walk past each other ignoring hand to hand combat. My suggestion has been that there be a rule something like this: if you are adjacent to an enemy during your turn and you move away from that enemy and attack another opponent then you have disadvantage on the attack. For example if you are next to an orc during your turn, move away from the orc and attack a goblin, then you have disadvantage. This rule would achieve similar results to opportunity actions but without introducing out-of-turn dice rolls and out-of-turn damage.
7. ... especialy as one of them has Ray of Frost as minor spell - in now version, Ray of Forst is immobilizng target when hit on the AC.But clearly, spellshould be on Dextertiy Saving Throw. In now version it's just too powerful.
I agree that Ray of Frost should be a Dexterity saving throw instead of an attack roll against AC. Why would heavy armor prevent ice from forming around your legs and feet if the ray touches you?
As far as the spell being too powerful, that's independent of the fact it uses an attack roll. It would essentially be just as powerful using a Dexterity save as using the attack roll vs AC. Clearly the spell is really useful against a solo opponent who has limited ranged attacks, but outside of that situation it's not necessarily nearly as useful as simply doing, say, magic missile over and over.
I think one possible change that might be a good compromise would be to make it be based on the target's hit points, similar to how Hold Person and Charm Person are keyed to the target's hit points. So against a high hit point opponent Ray of Frost reduces movement speed by -5 or -10 but doesn't reduce it to zero, for instance, while against low hit point opponents the speed is reduce to zero.
8. Clerics can't change they spells in to healings - wierd one, cause healing spells are fundamnet of this class.
You misread how cleric spells work in DDN. Clerics cast spells like 3e sorcerers cast spells, ie the cleric can cast any spell they know any time they want in any combination they want by spending the appropriate spell slot. In other words unlike wizards clerics don't assign specific spells to their spell slots, they can cast whatever they want on the fly. So DDN clerics can already do exactly the sort of spell swapping you're talking about.
10. Long rest - Is it only me to see that long rest with "full HP and all HD" is too much?!...
Remember that hit points aren't physical damage in DDN. You only take a serious physical injury if you are knocked to zero hit points, and if you are current at or below zero hit points you can't take a long rest at all. If you're unconcious and have nobody to heal you it takes 2d6 hours before you recover and wake up with one hit point. So the only way you can take a long rest is if you are already above zero hit points which means that you've already mostly physically recovered from whatever debilitating injury you suffered.
So going from one hit point to full in one day is not "too much", all it reflects is that you are going from being "tired" to "not being tired". The harder physical recovery is going from zero hit points to one hit point.
But yes, for clarity the module should explicitly say something like "the experience reward is the amount of experience to be split evenly among characters in the party after they defeat the encounter."
Thanks for asserting me the PCs don't go up a 1st level after 4 hours of play.
Adding in advantage/disadvantage might be overkill. (Or it might not be, I won't pretend to have analyzed the numbers or anything. I'm just saying it's not immediately obvious that there needs to be an additional bonus for surprise other than automatically going first.)
Not adding - replacing "-20 on Intiative". It's more logical to me, esspecialy as you are suprdies only on ONE, concrete atacker, not any one particiapiting in fight.
If so I agree there should be something that provides incentive for combatants to not just walk past each other ignoring hand to hand combat. My suggestion has been that there be a rule something like this: if you are adjacent to an enemy during your turn and you move away from that enemy and attack another opponent then you have disadvantage on the attack. For example if you are next to an orc during your turn, move away from the orc and attack a goblin, then you have disadvantage. This rule would achieve similar results to opportunity actions but without introducing out-of-turn dice rolls and out-of-turn damage.
Great idea, will try it on next session.
I think one possible change that might be a good compromise would be to make it be based on the target's hit points, similar to how Hold Person and Charm Person are keyed to the target's hit points. So against a high hit point opponent Ray of Frost reduces movement speed by -5 or -10 but doesn't reduce it to zero, for instance, while against low hit point opponents the speed is reduce to zero.
Interesting idea to think of it. Will consult with my spellcasters players and see what can we do with that.
You misread how cleric spells work in DDN.
Great for pointin it out - my clerics players will be happy with this news.
Remember that hit points aren't physical damage in DDN. You only take a serious physical injury if you are knocked to zero hit points, and if you are current at or below zero hit points you can't take a long rest at all. If you're unconcious and have nobody to heal you it takes 2d6 hours before you recover and wake up with one hit point. So the only way you can take a long rest is if you are already above zero hit points which means that you've already mostly physically recovered from whatever debilitating injury you suffered.
So going from one hit point to full in one day is not "too much", all it reflects is that you are going from being "tired" to "not being tired". The harder physical recovery is going from zero hit points to one hit point.
I had an issue with this level of abstraction. This looks like character can be bristling with arrows like a porcupine and be "oh, it's a scratch" until you get zero HP and then one axe attack or magic missle do "I'm dying!". To low diffrance in runing the health of character...
I love how the new Cleric casts "spells." It feels a lot more like 3e and a lot less like 4e, which is good. My group has always gone to the next edition out of a love for trying new things. 4e was a big disappointment in some ways, but fun in other ways. Unfortunately, 4e's biggist let-down was how unflexible it was. Everyone felt like they were playing the same video game instead of unique characters in a unique setting. I think DnD Next is bringing this back.
1. NO XP RULES MENTIONED! - on last night game we didn't know is XP for enocunters is to get to every PC, or splited between them. BIG problem.
It's not a HUGE problem since when you look at the numbers it becomes obvious the experience is the total amount to be split among the party members. (eg There are encounters which have over 2000 exp reward listed which if you gave that amount to every character would instantly level them from 1st to second level. Clearly that amount is supposed to be divided up among the characters in the party.)
But yes, for clarity the module should explicitly say something like "the experience reward is the amount of experience to be split evenly among characters in the party after they defeat the encounter."
My player also point out, if it's true, there should be roleplaying and sidequest awards. Like they escorted pair of marchant from hobgoblins jailto village - how much X should be for that. How many XP I should consider to give after session?
Also...
11. Dwarven Fighter is just too powerfull in comparison to other PCs - my players easily just did 19 Damage to Ogre - whithout Critical Hit!
Remember that hit points aren't physical damage in DDN. You only take a serious physical injury if you are knocked to zero hit points, and if you are current at or below zero hit points you can't take a long rest at all. If you're unconcious and have nobody to heal you it takes 2d6 hours before you recover and wake up with one hit point. So the only way you can take a long rest is if you are already above zero hit points which means that you've already mostly physically recovered from whatever debilitating injury you suffered.
So going from one hit point to full in one day is not "too much", all it reflects is that you are going from being "tired" to "not being tired". The harder physical recovery is going from zero hit points to one hit point.
I had an issue with this level of abstraction. This looks like character can be bristling with arrows like a porcupine and be "oh, it's a scratch" until you get zero HP and then one axe attack or magic missle do "I'm dying!". To low diffrance in runing the health of character...
Glad you liked my other replies.
As far as healing, the quicker healing doesn't really both me personally but I get that you want a finer gradation reflecting physical damage.
One possible rule might be to introduce wound points. It could work something like this:
Every time a character is reduced to zero hit points they gain one wound point reflecting that they've suffered a physical wound which will take a while to heal and which will impact their combat effectiveness. Whenever a character takes a long rest, if they any wound points, then they reduce their wound points by one and only heal to half their maximum hit points and half their hit dice (rounded down). If they have no additional wound points then they heal to full hit points and full hit dice as normal.
Thus the more often you take major physical debilitating injuries by going to zero hit points the longer it takes you to fully recover. Once you've gotten rid of all your wound points you're assumed to have recovered from the worst of the physical portion of your injuries and the remaining hit point loss is just minor bruises and fatigue, etc.
Obviously this sort of system is a little more complicated than the standard healing rules in the playtest but it might offer a nice compromise if you're looking for a grittier feel for healing physical damage.
1. NO XP RULES MENTIONED! - on last night game we didn't know is XP for enocunters is to get to every PC, or splited between them. BIG problem.
This problem expanded. My player point out I should be giving roleplay awards and sidequest ( they freed two hobgoblins prisoners ), but now I don't have any clue how much to give PCs XP for that.
As to too much HP problem, I found this on "short rest/long rest" topic....
Let's borrow your idea of a "wound" (Though I like the term "injury" better) every time you drop below zero hitpoints. I also wouldn't mind seeing "wounds" being accumulated every time you take more than half your total hitpoints in one hit but that's niether here nor there. How about every time you accumulate a "wound", you lose one HD. This loss is permanent until, as you say, the character rests for one full day per "wound". A character could still continue adventuring, while wounded, but would be start into a "death spiral" only in that his "work day" would become progressively shorter. Something that, I feel, would represent the abstract nature of hitpoints as things like endurance and morale. Yes you can soldier on through the wounds but they're -eventually- going to bring you down unless you rest up fully.
This would also allow for a more Heroic feeling at later levels through having more HD. You could press on through more injuries.
Great idea, it nicely complete with short rests, but also encourage to make longer rests in village, whitch in turn means players once going to dungeons WILL STAY THERE LONGER - no more "24-second workday".
As for procupines with arrows, I don't narrate it that way in DnD Next. Since they say loss of hit points are just scartches, when someone hits with an arrow or bolt, I say the bolt grazes them, or punches them in the gut and gets deflected by the armor. Or the arrows flies so close, they get their nerves rattled.
When they go down to 0 hp, I tell them that the arrow pierced them, and they fall down dead.
with the low HP values of the monsters, this tends to happen quickly
We had a problem with Turn Undead rules. As the monsters provided in the module hasn't stats, we didn't know the Wisdom value for the Saving Throw (in fact, we didn't know the ability value for any check or contest). Also, clerics in the new rules seems to just turn ALL undead in their area, regardless the undead type or number or hp or level. So two level 1 clerics just turned docens of undead like it was nothing. This has no sense.
As for procupines with arrows, I don't narrate it that way in DnD Next. Since they say loss of hit points are just scartches, when someone hits with an arrow or bolt, I say the bolt grazes them, or punches them in the gut and gets deflected by the armor. Or the arrows flies so close, they get their nerves rattled.
So you just "scratches" monsters with your sword dealing 5 Damage that kills goblins? Cause to me it's TOTALLY illogical. Especially as character have later about 50 to even 100 HPs. I can envision Conan the Barbarian style "this wounds are only scrathes for me", but it's based on his willpower. After major battles he is all covered in blood with many cuts that would killed normal men. Even then - they get those wounds by weapons of enemy, not "wait a minute I must rest, becuase your sword is so sharp".
This is how medival baesd combat looks like ( Clip from 1:38 )
