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13 months ago ::
May 29, 2012 - 7:56PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2009
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My group and I had a chance to try out the playtest on Sunday. Overall, I think everyone had a great time and we're planning to play again next week.
My biggest issue was trying to get use to playing the game without the use of miniatures. As a DM, it was very easy for me to keep track of combat in 4e and 3.5 since I had the mini's to keep me on track. For the playtest, I wanted to try out D&DNext using "theater of the mind (TOTM)" to see what it would feel like in the new system. I feel like TOTM added more roleplaying, but also made it easy for me to lose track of what was going on. Whenever the next iteration of the rules come out, I would definitely like to see a section that gives the DM tips to help keep track of combat when playing in TOTM.
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13 months ago ::
May 29, 2012 - 9:15PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2004
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I didn't have too much trouble in our test, but we didn't have any very complicated fights. What I remember doing in AD&D, though, is using minis and markers, but not in a rigourous way. You'd just plop them down on the table to represent more or less where your character was, in relation to the other characters. At most, you'd sketch out the terrain on a piece of paper so you could see where you were in relation to that too. But there wasn't any grid, and you wouldn't count square or anything. The DM would just estimate distances. I remember that working fine at the time.
Definitely agree it's worth a discussion in the rulebooks, whatever they want to say about it.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 3:33AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2007
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There's a couple of things you can do to help yourself out here. First you can place the positions of the monsters on your game map, that way you know where they are in relation to the room they are in and with the players as the encounter starts.
You can use your miniatures as reference for those harder fights where there's a lot going on.
The thing to remember is the space they take up and how far they can move. As DM you know where things are you put them there. the players need to know too so good descriptions are vital. Once you get into the process it gets way easier because you're not worried about chess moves. simple combat doesn't include things that require precise knowledge of every thing in the room, special conditions or complex actions. Most of your fights are going to be a few rounds long with the bodies piling up at the player's feet.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 5:53AM
#4
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I tried Theatre of the Mind and it just didn't work. At the very least, we had to draw out a draft dungeon map and mark our locations.
Theatre of the Mind (at least for my group) leads to to much mis-interpretation between the players and DM.
However, taking out the tactical rules (such as attacks of oppurtunity) was refreshing, it sure made combat flow better, and it forced players to think creatively to get that 'advantage'.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 10:59AM
#5
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Theatre of the Mind requires clear description and communication. If you feel that your skills in this area aren't sufficient for a specific encounter (solo encounters are quite simple, large encounters are, of course, more complex), then relying on external aids is no vice. However, when the external aid possesses more authority over the scenario than the DM's description - that's when you're playing a different game.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 11:12AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jul 13, 2011
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I agree to a point. I did have one situation where we should have used the map. In section C the four way intersection became a chaotic combat to manage. Orcs from three directions and the players all moving around in a "4X4 square" area utilizing the entrance hall to the cave to assist in movement and fall back when needed. I should have used a mat. This type of game does lend itself to using small map areas, at leat B2. OUt of 7 combats that was the only one that dragged slightly due to my currently running 4e and reliance on mats. I have not run a true narative combat in a while.
MY DM COMMITMENT
To insure that those who participate in any game that I adjudicate are having fun, staying engaged, maintaining focus, contributing to the story and becoming legendary.
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules."
Gary Gygax
Thanks for that Gary, so now stop playing RAW games.
Member of the Progressive Front of Grognardia Suicide Squad
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 11:16AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 22, 2007
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I really don't know what I think about this. I love minis and floor plans, and that whole side of things...but I also miss the old days when you just made it up. I think in practice I'll keep the minis for the big set-pieces.
One of the things that minis discourage is the short little 5-minute combat, because frankly it's too much hassle to get all the minis out for that. That's where TotM will excel again. Hurrah!
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 12:29PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jul 13, 2011
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I really don't know what I think about this. I love minis and floor plans, and that whole side of things...but I also miss the old days when you just made it up. I think in practice I'll keep the minis for the big set-pieces.
One of the things that minis discourage is the short little 5-minute combat, because frankly it's too much hassle to get all the minis out for that. That's where TotM will excel again. Hurrah!
Agreed, all other combats that we had ran less than 3 minutes. Had I thought more about the 4-way situation I would have noted it in the module but, as usual the players went somewhere, plan wise, that I did not expect.
MY DM COMMITMENT
To insure that those who participate in any game that I adjudicate are having fun, staying engaged, maintaining focus, contributing to the story and becoming legendary.
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules."
Gary Gygax
Thanks for that Gary, so now stop playing RAW games.
Member of the Progressive Front of Grognardia Suicide Squad
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 12:50PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Apr 11, 2007
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I do pretty well with description even when things are going kablooie all around. However, when things do get complicated beyond my ability to remain clear and consistent with the descriptions, I don't always use grids, but when I do, I use graph paper and a pencil. A quick sketch of the room with area quickly drawn for debris, etc., and designations for monsters (such as o1, o2, o3 for three orcs) and the same for the PCs (ex for Exara, rk for Rocko, etc). After that it starts to look a little like John Madden sat at my table as I take notes. I only use those things to answer questions that I can't make up so readily or that are tactically critical.
PLAYER: How many kobolds can I catch in Burning Hands?
ME: 5.
-or-
PLAYER: Which way and how sharp does that ramp curve down to the pit, and where is the owlbear in relation to the base?
ME: *sketch sketch sketch* There, and there. And there's some debris right about here, and that dead dire wolf fell right here.
It works for my group.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 4:04PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2005
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My players unanimously refused to play without a grid and minis when I suggested it. They felt it was too hard to visualize the relative positions of the monsters and characters, to keep track of which ones were injured and by how much, which was enganged with whom, and so on.
We all play a lot of tactical board games, so we're probably too set in our ways here. I remember playing TotM in high school, second edition, but that seems so long ago....
"Edison didn't succeed the first time he invented Benjamin Franklin, either." Albert the Alligator, Walt Kelly's Pogo Sunday BookThe Core Coliseum: test out your 4e builds and fight to the death.
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