|
13 months ago ::
May 29, 2012 - 11:14AM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2007
|
I am a pretty dignified person. I seldom if ever squee. But when I started to read the section on currency I couldn't help but feel like I was seeing something new and cool in the game I love. Real hard and fast specificity like I've never seen before. Coppers are the coins of the common people with silver peices for their occasional high end purchases. Gold coins are the coins of wealthy merchants, nobles and dragons hordes. Coins are a third of an ounce each, with 50 of them adding up to a pound.
I can't tell you how much I love this.
The question is, does it shake out? For the most part it looks good. Armor and weapons are all in gold--which is fine because it's mostly the rich who have access to such things. Magic items have been taken off the table as something you can get with gold--which makes a certain amount of sense, and opens up the idea of magic as a barter-only economy. An adventurer meeting the representative of a lord in the back of a smoke-filled tavern to trade a helm of intellect for a pair of boots of spider climb. I kind of like the mood that sets up.
But then there's a couple of wrinkles. there's a power the Healer theme gives you: you collect healing herbs and turn them into healing kits (among other things) all of which require the expenditure of 25 gold in components. I'm not sure what the game balance argument is here, but from an in setting perspective, you have to imagine commoner healers that can create these sorts of remedies--and that the means to make them are all around, growing in forests and meadows. How would something like that ever be worth 25 gold, and if so, how could commoners ever afford to heal their injuries?
Like I said though, on the whole I love the progress here. If we can just get everything working off the same price guidelines I think we'll be in really good shape.
Now with 100% more Vorthos!
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 29, 2012 - 11:35AM
#2
|
|
|
Don't want to try a justify it too much but an argument for this might go something like this - it is a kit that anyone can use, that has 10 uses. A healer just has to go out and collect the herbs, but this is not the expensive part in the creation of the kit. The real expense comes from being able to convert it into something that can be used by anyone and can be carried around with you.
Just a thought for it anyway...
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 29, 2012 - 11:35AM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2012
|
I'm not sure what the game balance argument is here, but from an in setting perspective, you have to imagine commoner healers that can create these sorts of remedies--and that the means to make them are all around, growing in forests and meadows. How would something like that ever be worth 25 gold, and if so, how could commoners ever afford to heal their injuries?
Commoners aren't usually healing hit points. The healing they're in need of is usually in the form of antibiotics, disinfectants, and relief of the symptoms of disease. So what you'd have in a "commoner herbalist" is someone who uses natural cures as opposed to the "PC herbalist" who uses real magic to heal wounds. The distinction isn't really apparent on the character sheet, but the htp manual description of a healing potion clearly defines it as "magical" healing. Thus, the price is beyond most Commoners.
However, you can be sure that you're not the only one who has a problem with the Herbalism feat and the price/availability of potions, as you'll discover if you peruse the threads for a couple of minutes. Dissention is everywhere.
Respectfully,
compliant_screenname
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 29, 2012 - 6:05PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2007
|
For these few posts I was trying to give my impressions before I'd read other people's posts hoping to give an unbiased first brush with the playtest. That said, if the herbalism thing isn't just me then I feel good to see the game is moving in a direction I think is positive.
That said I've never been the kind of person that thinks commoners have a different kind of hit points than heroes. Sure it might be abstract, but lots of commoners get run over by carts or gored by angry bulls and find themselves in need of healing. I can imagine local healers using what they know about local remedies being able to help without any magic at all--I mean how many medicines used to be tree bark or bread mold? That said, moldy loaves of bread aren't 25 gold a pop.
That said I can tell you're coming at this from way more of a gamist perspective than I am, and that's okay. Hopefully the rules can inject a whole bunch of internal consistancy and verisimilitude without hurting the fun of the game play. At the end of the day, here's to a game we can all enjoy.
Now with 100% more Vorthos!
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 29, 2012 - 6:56PM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
|
I am a pretty dignified person. I seldom if ever squee. But when I started to read the section on currency I couldn't help but feel like I was seeing something new and cool in the game I love. Real hard and fast specificity like I've never seen before. Coppers are the coins of the common people with silver peices for their occasional high end purchases. Gold coins are the coins of wealthy merchants, nobles and dragons hordes. Coins are a third of an ounce each, with 50 of them adding up to a pound.
I can't tell you how much I love this.
Actually, the coin section made me angry. The specified-in-the-rules that certain coinages types (electrum and platinum) come from ancient kingdoms and cause distrust hit the exact wrong note. I dislike the rules dictating my campaign world, and there seemed no purpose to have those few sentences. I need to house rule official flavor our of my coinage? Who are you kidding?
"...you might be eaten by a Grue."
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 6:29AM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2012
|
That said I've never been the kind of person that thinks commoners have a different kind of hit points than heroes. Sure it might be abstract, but lots of commoners get run over by carts or gored by angry bulls and find themselves in need of healing. I can imagine local healers using what they know about local remedies being able to help without any magic at all--I mean how many medicines used to be tree bark or bread mold? That said, moldy loaves of bread aren't 25 gold a pop.
That said I can tell you're coming at this from way more of a gamist perspective than I am, and that's okay. Hopefully the rules can inject a whole bunch of internal consistancy and verisimilitude without hurting the fun of the game play. At the end of the day, here's to a game we can all enjoy.
I think of myself as more of a "narrativist/simulationst", personally. I wasn't suggesting commoners have a different kind of hit points, only that they have very few of them (probably 1 or 2). Most injuries don't cause actual hit point damage (in game terms) because, if they did, everytime a commoner hit his thumb with a hammer he'd have to make a saving throw or die. Again, what do you mean "find themselves in need of healing"? If someone gets gored by a bull, they have some surgery done, try to keep infection out of it, and, after some time resting, they're healed. That's "natural" healing. That's what I was talking about when I said "the healing they're in need of is usually in the form of antibiotics, disinfectants, and relief of the symptoms of disease". That should include (which I think was one of your points) the Healer's Kit, which is non-magical. A Healer's Kit (and an antitoxin, even) should be nowhere near 50 gp (or even 25).
I thought (perhaps mistakenly) that you were suggesting any common herbalist should be able to make a magical healing potion for less than 25gp.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 7:38AM
#7
|
|
|
I am a pretty dignified person. I seldom if ever squee. But when I started to read the section on currency I couldn't help but feel like I was seeing something new and cool in the game I love. Real hard and fast specificity like I've never seen before. Coppers are the coins of the common people with silver peices for their occasional high end purchases. Gold coins are the coins of wealthy merchants, nobles and dragons hordes. Coins are a third of an ounce each, with 50 of them adding up to a pound.
I can't tell you how much I love this.
Isn't that almost word for word the same thing in the 3e book?
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 7:41AM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Apr 30, 2012
|
An healer kit can cost 50g if it's not a commoner one but something that uses rare spices and is in use by wealthy people. The problem now becomes: How can an herbalist make it out of some common herbs? Maybe that it can be fixed this way, the herbalist PC cannot make those kits, but by a proper knowledge of dosage and integrating those rare medicines with more common ones they can double the charges on the kits. Same effects balance wise and we get to keep it realistic.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 8:02AM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2012
|
It occurs to me, in the case of the Healer's Kit, that it's a multiple-use item. In the above example of a commoner being gored by a bull, he'd still only need one use of the item to help him heal. If the Herbalist assembled the kit himself, the cost for 1 dose would be 2 gold and 5 silver. While this amount of coin would still be beyond most commoners, the Herbalist would most likely accept barter items or work out some sort of payment plan with the commoner.
For example, a sheep (according to 3e rules for trade items) is worth about 2gp. The commoner might give the Herbalist a sheep (or produce, or tobacco, or whatever trade the commoner works in) and whatever copper coins he can afford, and then maybe agree to work off the rest of the bill, helping the Herbalist with whatever tasks he might need until his bill is paid.
It's really a question of whether you want to make the rules fit the simulation, or have the simulation fit the rules.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 12:00PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2007
|
The commoner might give the Herbalist a sheep (or produce, or tobacco, or whatever trade the commoner works in) and whatever copper coins he can afford, and then maybe agree to work off the rest of the bill, helping the Herbalist with whatever tasks he might need until his bill is paid.
I really like this sort of thing. The "my daughter got injured so we're selling the haycart and all our furniture to be able to buy her some medicine". That said, it's still a little weird that commoner herbalists are still commoners if there's dozens of gold peices worth of plants just lying around everywhere. I think it's really probably just more of a thing where the designers were coming up with the gold value for other reasons and the results are just wonky.
That said, I guess I rather a world where the commoners and adventurers had the same "bloodied" hit points--say 5-10. And all the additional hit points reflect more "John MacLane" damage: getting thrown around, demoralized, scraped and bruised--and then were "dying" until they got to their negative constitution. The idea that being a "normal" person turns you into some kind of minion that's born to bump your toe and die just really bugs me. So yeah, a peasant gets gored by a bull, takes the 10 or so damage that comes from that and needs treatment. I'm really okay with that. That feels like it creates a more reasonable world.
If the adventurer takes the same 10 hit points of damage but rolls aside with a bad abrasion and ends up wincing in the mud--I can handle that as long as somewhere in there you have a bloodied pool of hit points where it's at least possible he could be in the same position as the normal guy.
Now with 100% more Vorthos!
|
|
|
