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13 months ago ::
Jun 04, 2012 - 1:14PM
#41
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2003
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Anyway, I like healing being a limited resource. I like that it has to compete with more aggressive or utilitarian spells. You have to choose between giving that fighter the HP boost so he/she can soak up an extra hit, or casing some spell that causes the enemy to have some sort of disadvantage or your allies to have some sort of advantage, damage yourself. I don't know how limited it should be exactly, but it should require a tactical choice. It should cause you to sacrifice some other advantage you could get instead.
So for you, you find the resource management aspect tactically interesting. I guess I can understand that. Don't agree, but, I can see where you're coming from. Especially considering the below:
I basically want to see two levels of magical healing preferably. One that's minor but enough to keep a party on its feet to retreat, and one that's more extensive but has a cost associated in sacrificing other tactical resources. So a healing channel divinity (sort of like Pathfinder's Channel Positive Energy) and spellcasting healing would work well.
This would be interesting, combining both of our approaches. Have resource-non-intensive minor healing and then resource-chewing major healing, and see where the tactical decisions lie.
As long as whatever the method finalized allows the Cleric to not feel obligated to "waste" his turn healing when it's "necessary".
Planes Wanderer
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13 months ago ::
Jun 04, 2012 - 1:42PM
#42
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......
One thing I really liked about the cleric to moradin, he was a "defender" rather than a "leader" really, and I would love to see more domains and gods changing the role of the cleric away from healers if the player wants to. Options are good, options are your friend.....
IMHO.
One other thing to remember about options and the Healer theme. At level three there is a Healer's touch feat. You no longer have to deal with average hit points earned back. You automatically get the full dice result.
Doesn't that seem TOO strong at level 3?
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13 months ago ::
Jun 04, 2012 - 1:45PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2009
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Not wasting actions is one of the reasons I really like the difference between the Cure Light Wounds and Healing Word spells. It's a tactical choice that's also character-defining. Are you the type to help others to the exclusion of beng effective on your own for that round or are you the type to rush in to get the glory yourself and heal as an afterthought? It gives you the choice, and I really like that. It's not just the resource management I'm worried about, but the character choices the actions represent.
Also, I've been calling the Moradin cleric a Paladin since I first opened the playtest packet. It doesn't feel like a cleric, it feels like a paladin. Honestly, I like it this way. I understand the archetype of the paladin or "knight in shining armor" is strong in Western culture. But I'd rather see the simplicity of design that makes the paladin either a theme or a multiclassing with fighter. Fighter/Cleric + Themes = Paladin. Fighter/Rogue + Themes = Assassin. Wizard/Cleric + Themes = Bard. Wizard/Fighter + Themes = Spellsword or whatever other weird arcane melee classes exist. Wizard/Rogue + Themes = Warlock. Rogue/Cleric + Themes = Avenger. Only a couple of classes don't really fit with that because the mechanics are different, like Sorcerer. But that's completely off topic...
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13 months ago ::
Jun 04, 2012 - 1:50PM
#44
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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......
One thing I really liked about the cleric to moradin, he was a "defender" rather than a "leader" really, and I would love to see more domains and gods changing the role of the cleric away from healers if the player wants to. Options are good, options are your friend.....
IMHO.
One other thing to remember about options and the Healer theme. At level three there is a Healer's touch feat. You no longer have to deal with average hit points earned back. You automatically get the full dice result.
Doesn't that seem TOO strong at level 3?
Maybe, dunno yet. I would suggest themes be farely potent at every level if that is what the characters concept/theme is going to be. Not sure how Healer scales.
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13 months ago ::
Jun 04, 2012 - 1:51PM
#45
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My group playtested last night and the biggest problem was the lack of in-combat and out-of-combat healing. We fought monsters (an owlbear, then some oozes) that were able to one-shot anybody in the party. That's fine in 4E but not under the playtest rules.
In-combat, individual party members have to retreat from the battle after a round or two because they have 2 HP, can go dead-dead on one hit, and have no option to fix it. Hopefully they can find a safe spot and have a ranged option, because they are done. Withdrawing from the remainder of combat is no fun.
Out-of-combat, your adventuring day is over because you can't get decent enough healing to fix that one poor sap who now can't take one hit. Running out of surges cut the fighting day short in 4E, but it wasn't so abrupt or dependent upon one dice roll, and as you got closer to your limit, the rogue or barbarian or other reckless striker would pipe up and say "I have maybe one more fight before I have to rest." 10-minute work days don't feel heroic; the roughly 4-5 encounter days under 4E seemed about right.
Some commenters noted that they didn't like Second Wind because you have to sacrifice your action to use it, but that's what makes it great. You are desperate enough to have to use it (and isn't that tension/despair that makes combats exciting and memorable?) at the expense of your action, which surely would have been epic.
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13 months ago ::
Jun 05, 2012 - 2:22AM
#46
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You automatically get the full dice result.
Doesn't that seem TOO strong at level 3?
I actually think it is to weak for level 1. Personally I think all healing currently being done via rolling in 5e should just be the maximum on the die in all situations for everybody with no theme / feat involved. Cure Light should just be 8+mod, Healing Word should be 6, spent HD should be the full value, etc. The 3rd level healer feat should do something else...
Serpine's Steps to Improve Healing in the Game (v2)
1) Maximize all currently random healing. Variable healing will just mess you up when you are already down by causing a lost action / resource at a critical time do to a bad roll.
2) Allow any character to spend an action to spend an HD when they are below half hit points: Usable as many times as you want in a battle (you are sacrificing an action where you could be doing something usefull, so it is penalty enough).
3) Healing Potion heals an amount equal to the drinker's CON. A magic potion should more then make you ready to take another sword blow.
4) Extended rest restores only up to half your HP and HD unless you spend a charge from a healing kit (1 of the 10). A heavily wounded party of 5 should burn out half a healing kit to repair themselves.
5) Cure Light Wounds gets same range as Healing Word. Lay on Hands is a Paladin power: Don't force in on a cleric trying to stay at range.
6) Channel Divinity can be burned as either Cure Light or Healing Word (both available to all Clerics). If there is no undead you still can use divine power in usefull way, and can pick from the two options situationally depending on if you want to act and heal or just heal in a particular round.
7) Spending HD during short rests does not require healing kits.
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13 months ago ::
Jun 05, 2012 - 8:05AM
#47
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Not wasting actions is one of the reasons I really like the difference between the Cure Light Wounds and Healing Word spells. It's a tactical choice that's also character-defining. Are you the type to help others to the exclusion of beng effective on your own for that round or are you the type to rush in to get the glory yourself and heal as an afterthought? It gives you the choice, and I really like that. It's not just the resource management I'm worried about, but the character choices the actions represent.
Very much agreed. The contrast between CLW and Healing Word is a good mechanic that allows the Cleric to make a judgement call. The good healing spells should take an action.
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13 months ago ::
Jun 05, 2012 - 8:15AM
#48
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You automatically get the full dice result.
Doesn't that seem TOO strong at level 3?
I actually think it is to weak for level 1. Personally I think all healing currently being done via rolling in 5e should just be the maximum on the die in all situations for everybody with no theme / feat involved. Cure Light should just be 8+mod, Healing Word should be 6, spent HD should be the full value, etc. The 3rd level healer feat should do something else...
Serpine's Steps to Make Healing Not be a Drag on the Game
1) Maximize all currently random healing. Variable healing will just mess you up when you are already down by causing a lost action / resource at a critical time do to a bad roll.
2) Spend an action to spend an HD: Usable as many times as you want in a battle (you are sacrificing an action where you could be doing something usefull, so it is penalty enough).
3) Healing Potion heals an amount equal to the drinker's CON. A magic potion should more then make you ready to take another sword blow.
4) One charge from a healing kit (of the 10) restores half your HD during an extended rest. A heavily wounded party of 5 should about burn out just an entire healing kit (10 units of half HD) via a night's rest.
5) Cure Light Wounds gets same range as Healing Word. Lay on Hands is a Paladin power: Don't force in on a cleric trying to stay at range.
6) Channel Divinity can be burned as either Cure Light or Healing Word (both available to all Clerics). If there is no undead you still can use divine power in usefull way, and can pick from the two options situationally depending on if you want to act and heal or just heal in a particular round.
I guess I should have said "too strong to fit within the current design principles." That might be a little closer to truth.
I like your system, though I sort of like a little bit of random (the way it is in 4th, static number + 1d6 or similar).
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13 months ago ::
Jun 05, 2012 - 1:19PM
#49
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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You automatically get the full dice result.
Doesn't that seem TOO strong at level 3?
I actually think it is to weak for level 1. Personally I think all healing currently being done via rolling in 5e should just be the maximum on the die in all situations for everybody with no theme / feat involved. Cure Light should just be 8+mod, Healing Word should be 6, spent HD should be the full value, etc. The 3rd level healer feat should do something else...
Serpine's Steps to Improve Healing in the Game (v2)
1) Maximize all currently random healing. Variable healing will just mess you up when you are already down by causing a lost action / resource at a critical time do to a bad roll.
2) Allow any character to spend an action to spend an HD when they are below half hit points: Usable as many times as you want in a battle (you are sacrificing an action where you could be doing something usefull, so it is penalty enough).
3) Healing Potion heals an amount equal to the drinker's CON. A magic potion should more then make you ready to take another sword blow.
4) Extended rest restores only up to half your HP and HD unless you spend a charge from a healing kit (1 of the 10). A heavily wounded party of 5 should burn out half a healing kit to repair themselves.
5) Cure Light Wounds gets same range as Healing Word. Lay on Hands is a Paladin power: Don't force in on a cleric trying to stay at range.
6) Channel Divinity can be burned as either Cure Light or Healing Word (both available to all Clerics). If there is no undead you still can use divine power in usefull way, and can pick from the two options situationally depending on if you want to act and heal or just heal in a particular round.
7) Spending HD during short rests does not require healing kits.
You had me until you got to #7 I think healing kits work sooooo well with the hit-die action, makes perfect sense, I mean you can only bandage a person so much before they need real medical care. thus its represented by "im outta hit-die uses for the day"
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13 months ago ::
Jun 05, 2012 - 4:38PM
#50
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Date Joined:
Apr 13, 2011
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I do think the cleric should have some sort of minor heal spell. Something he can use at-will. Now, I know I've said before that I don't think there should be at-will healing, and this is different. The way it is different, is that this spell can only target creatures that are below 1/2 max hp. A band-aid spell, if you will. It can't be used on creatures with greater than half hp. Basically, it can only be used to heal someone who is actually 'injured'.
There should still be a second wind, in-combat abitity to heal. It should be an optional module, and I would prefer it not use up your whole action. It should be tied to your hit dice, so you get more effect from it as you level, so it still heals roughly the same amount of hp. Like the cleric's at-will heal I just mentioned, you should only be able to use it once you are 'wounded', i.e. below 1/2 max hp.
I would also change out of combat, mundane healing- healer's kits - to no longer use your hit dice to determine healing. You are already paying for it by having to use up a charge from your kit, you shouldn't have to pay for the healing twice by also using up one of your hit dice. Healer's Kits should require the healer to use a charge from the kit, make a Wisdom check, and heal the target for 1d6/2 levels + healer's Wis mod + target's Con mod. If that seems too much, take out one of the mods or the other. I would prefer to take out the target's Con mod, because the Healer's Wisdom should factor into how well they heal you more than your own natural toughness, IMO.
That warm fuzzy feeling you get when you a forum thread you're subscribed to has a new comment.
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