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May 31, 2012 -- 12:48AM, randomvirus wrote:

In my view, running them and challenging them is a game about endurance.  Because, what I want them to see, when the druid for example has 1 surge left after 4 encounters, is to maybe rethink their builds.  A great defense is a great offense and all, but sometimes you actually need to muster a defense.

That's just my approach to dm'ing optimized characters (and a party of 5 strikers and a leader).  Obviously they'll ace a few encounters, but the longer they go without that extended rest, it forces them to consider maybe saving a daily or two, or taking defensive utilities / items instead of offensive one.

This is why I like to see time limits in every adventure. Give them 8 hours to complete a goal before it automatically fails, put in some travel, and they simply won't have time for an extended rest. They're not REQUIRED to kill themselves to achieve the goal, but if they don't choose that, they might not make it in time. That's ok; not even heroes always get there in time, and the adventure shifts to recovery or revenge.

Jun 1, 2012 -- 12:18AM, Grimli wrote:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Also saving throws could  be an issue too.  Unless well rounded the group could be dropped by a particualr type of enemy.


I'm not saying to exploit their weaknesses.  But this party should have some and they should come up.     


             

A good point.  If I'm getting this right from the OP, his party is a Vampire, Blackguard / Sorceror, and a Warlock Hexblade.  Depending on their builds I would assume their average fort defense is low.  Or will defense. 

And nothing makes a party regret low will saves like a monster that dominates.  Party of strikers?  Lemme know how it feels when one striker gets dominated into attacking another!

In terms of the game world they exist in, it stands to reason that if they become infamous enough, some kind of mind-controlling assassin might be hired to test their mettle.  Or poison them while they sleep. 

Since we don’t know your players we can suggest but without knowing everything you’re not going to get the perfect answer.

You have four party member as stated by you:

Vampire Multi-class Skald, Blackguard /Sorcerer hybrid, Hexblade, Rogue

The issue doesn’t seem to be effectiveness in combat, any by your previous statement it doesn’t seem to be skills or saving throws.  The problem is that you would like adversity.
 
  The problem 

4e is a numbers game.  A live monster is a threat, a dead monster isn't.  Damage is what causes the monster to die, you can use control effectss to stop a monster from attacking but its really a stall. 
 
Strikers are supposed to deal great damage and most of them do.  A Defender keeps a group alive to kill the monsters, the Leader gives benefits or hinders enemies long enough to kill the monsters, a controller also hinders enemies from being able to do damage.  Strikers get to kill monsters therefore they get the credit for the kill.  They get to brag about it at the taverns.  Defeating an enemy is good feeling and most of the other positions on the team do not give the same rewarding feeling.

 

Possible solution ideas

- You could waste the party.  Any DM can do this you don’t need to exploit their weaknesses do to it.  But if they might take it more of an DM assassination than a simple TPK.    You could study the weaknesses of each character or the group as a whole.  Some monsters working on concert can be devastating.

- You could introduce the players to NPC of other Classes, A Defender her, a Controller there, if you make them higher level and show them in combat the players could see what they are missing.  Perhaps if a player sees a High level Battlerager Fighter laugh off damage that would severely harm them they may reconsider the striker concept.  If you do this I suggest you select classes that multi-classing into them won’t give them the same benefits.  Also as already stated some classes do great damage on their own.

-  You could also do above but as a group, if they see a well designed group locking down and wasting monsters with teamwork they could see the benefits.

For example I ran a Keep on the Shadowfell.  The entire party made what they wanted to play.  Eventually they all got captured by hobgoblins.  I had the party made a new group but had them make them together and discusses group tactics.  They managed to build a much better party and liked it so much they decided to keep their new characters after saving their own ones.  

Currently my four friends and I are looking at building a group for RPGA we have the following: Warlord, Monk, Mage (Enchanter), Warden

The strategy is simple; except for the Warlord we all have some power that moves the targets around.  We herd them into a corner then the Wizard lays either Grease or Fountain of Flame (sometimes both).   The Warden marks as many as possible using abilities to lock them down or punish them for movement.  Warlord gives bonuses to the monk while he flies around the semicircle we’ve created taking down foes by the score.  Everybody has as job and everybody does there part. 

Jun 4, 2012 -- 9:03AM, PrimeSonic wrote:

Thank everyone for your feedback.
Simply making sure they were all together when they discussed party composition was enough to get them into a balanced team.

Each player is focusing on their position in the group. So we have a defender looking to protect, a controller looking to lock down, a leader looking to heal and buff, and a striker looking to kill. :P

Thank again everyone.

Sure thing, but don't thank us - thank Session Zero!