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13 months ago  ::  May 27, 2012 - 7:24AM #1
AstroTrain
Date Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 21
I know that making a hybrid is more of a hit-or-miss kind of ordeal, but every hybrid I've made before has been horrible, making me ingnore the system all together and just multiclassing. I've looked at the guide for hybrids and it's gotten me wanting to make one again. Before I do though, I need something that can actually work. Does anyone have any combinations of classes that are really effective (perhaps to the point where it does it's job better than a parent class)?
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13 months ago  ::  May 27, 2012 - 7:38AM #2
Rancid_Rogue
Date Joined: Mar 25, 2009
Posts: 948
The most effective hybrid at this point probably is Cleric with a striker that needs the scale proficiency and invisible large shield inherent in Battle Cleric's Lore. That's generally a Str-Wis Longtooth Shifter Cleric|Ranger or a Str-Cha Dragonborn Barbarian|Cleric. The Cleric|Ranger will outperform a pure melee Ranger until at least mid-Paragon. The Barbarian|Cleric is simply the best Thaneborn build possible.

Another potentially better than the original hybrid combines Executioner (and its liberal hybrid striker mechanics) with another striker. My favorite is a Str-Dex Executioner|Ranger with Throw and Stab (not Twin Strike!) and Midnight Blade Student. At level 1 your go-to standard action is:

+7 vs Reflex, 1d4. THEN move 6. THEN vs second target +7 vs Reflex, 1d8+1d8+1d6+4.   

Add Manticore's Fury and Hybrid Talent (Running Attack) as you level.   
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13 months ago  ::  May 27, 2012 - 7:54AM #3
Mommy_was_an_Orc
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Posts: 4,987

May 27, 2012 -- 7:24AM, AstroTrain wrote:

I know that making a hybrid is more of a hit-or-miss kind of ordeal, but every hybrid I've made before has been horrible, making me ingnore the system all together and just multiclassing. I've looked at the guide for hybrids and it's gotten me wanting to make one again. Before I do though, I need something that can actually work. Does anyone have any combinations of classes that are really effective (perhaps to the point where it does it's job better than a parent class)?




I'd check the hybrid handbook in my sig...

There are lots of effective hybrids. There are 3 basic rules:
Have an effective AC. If this means spending the hybrid talent feat at 1st level to get that AC, spend it. If your hybrid would have light armor and no significant bonus from Dex/Int/some other stat, avoid that.
Have 18s in your primary stats unless you know better. Try to avoid having them in the same defense - i.e. avoid Cha/Wis as an example.
Make sure you satisfy any specific requirements of class features. An example of this is Fighter - because you don't mark with non-Fighter attacks, this can be really bad. But if you gain an option that lets you mark consistently, then it can be really great.

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13 months ago  ::  May 27, 2012 - 8:13AM #4
Herid_Fel
  • Dragon Slayer
Date Joined: Apr 11, 2008
Posts: 2,565
A Str/Cha barbarian|sorcerer also works well thanks to the "free" ability to use Strength to determine AC. When you use Hybrid Talent to gain the barbarian's proficiency with hide and scaling bonus to AC and Reflex when in light armor, you'll do as well as the cleric with regard to defenses, getting better by paragon.
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13 months ago  ::  May 27, 2012 - 8:21AM #5
Rancid_Rogue
Date Joined: Mar 25, 2009
Posts: 948

May 27, 2012 -- 8:13AM, Herid_Fel wrote:

A Str/Cha barbarian|sorcerer also works well thanks to the "free" ability to use Strength to determine AC. When you use Hybrid Talent to gain the barbarian's proficiency with hide and scaling bonus to AC and Reflex when in light armor, you'll do as well as the cleric with regard to defenses, getting better by paragon.


I must disagree. Barbarian|Sorcerer leaves no opportunity to purchase Hybrid Talent (Feral Might). Thaneborn Triumph, Roar of Triumph, and the often outrageous Thaneborn kickers are a huge part of this package.  

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13 months ago  ::  May 27, 2012 - 8:27AM #6
Herid_Fel
  • Dragon Slayer
Date Joined: Apr 11, 2008
Posts: 2,565
I think that's dramatically overstating the usefulness of those kickers. The base barbarian usually doesn't get much benefit from them because Dexterity is needed more for a semi-decent AC. I've played this sorcerer|barbarian through heroic, and my biggest difficulty was getting through the feat taxes (Hybrid Talent, Expertise, AIP, and eventually weapon proficiency). I could cut out AIP by taking Elemental Initiate as my theme, but this is an LFR character who won't find any good ki focuses as bundles.
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13 months ago  ::  May 27, 2012 - 8:46AM #7
the_move
Date Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Posts: 355
I have a Deva cleric/invoker hybrid (Forgotten Realms, Amaunator) and it works pretty well right now.
Actually I believe that invoker part provides some neat feats and powers, that a pure lazer cleric would also appreciate.
  
Ok, you lose some HP and a HS, since the invoker is a controller, but with Battle Clerics Lore you get scale and a shield bonus without wearing a shield, so wielding a staff as an implement is no problem. With staff expertise you'll have no OAs incoming while casting area or ranged and the Covenant of Wrath also boosts the damage of your cleric encounter and daily powers.  WIS is the Primary stat for both classes while using CHA as a "weak" secondary.

The Invokers secondary abilities are irrelevant, though you can put some points into INT (12) in order to multiclass with "learned spellcaster" at paragon in order to get ritual casting with it. Alternatively you can take the Pact Initiate that does only require CHA and such as at start WIS 20 and CHA 16. Morninglord as PP is a pretty obvious choice anyway. Sacred Flame and Hand of Radiance are your best choices for at-wills and you will do pretty good with them.
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13 months ago  ::  May 27, 2012 - 9:12AM #8
Mommy_was_an_Orc
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Posts: 4,987

May 27, 2012 -- 8:27AM, Herid_Fel wrote:

I think that's dramatically overstating the usefulness of those kickers. The base barbarian usually doesn't get much benefit from them because Dexterity is needed more for a semi-decent AC.




That's the point of Cleric - because you don't need to worry about Dexterity, you can boost Charisma instead. Having +2+Cha to hit an opponent with Storm of Blades is usually 3 nearly automatic hits.

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13 months ago  ::  May 27, 2012 - 9:13AM #9
Mommy_was_an_Orc
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Posts: 4,987

May 27, 2012 -- 7:38AM, Rancid_Rogue wrote:

Another potentially better than the original hybrid combines Executioner (and its liberal hybrid striker mechanics) with another striker. My favorite is a Str-Dex Executioner|Ranger with Throw and Stab (not Twin Strike!) and Midnight Blade Student. At level 1 your go-to standard action is:

+7 vs Reflex, 1d4. THEN move 6. THEN vs second target +7 vs Reflex, 1d8+1d8+1d6+4.   

Add Manticore's Fury and Hybrid Talent (Running Attack) as you level.   




That doesn't quite work like that - Midnight Blade Student modifies the power Throw & Stab, but the stab part of the power is not Throw & Stab, it is an MBA...

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13 months ago  ::  May 27, 2012 - 9:37AM #10
Rancid_Rogue
Date Joined: Mar 25, 2009
Posts: 948

May 27, 2012 -- 9:13AM, Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:

That doesn't quite work like that - Midnight Blade Student modifies the power Throw & Stab, but the stab part of the power is not Throw & Stab, it is an MBA...


I thought about that. I couldn't find a hard ruling either way. I considered adding the caveat "assuming that your DM interprets the power such that the feat applies to both attack rolls," but the last time I tried to do that I started a nice little flame war. 

So this time I just went ahead with Real CO Thinking(TM), which would be that the MBA is an effect of "attack[ing] an enemy with a power associated with this feat" and therefore the feat applies to it and allows rolling the MBA vs Reflex just like Deft Blade does at paragon.

I guess there was bound to be a rebuttal either way.     

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