|
13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 10:38PM
#11
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2010
|
One thing I just realized is that ability scores have been evened out a bit due to the new skill/save system. They aren't totally even, but it's possible to make it easier to shuffle the bonuses around if there is rhyme and reason to it. I just need to see them first. Can't wait for the character creation build.
Spread your ability scores using the Elite Array:
15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8
Fighters get +1 Strength
Rogues get +1 Dexterity
Wizards get +1 Intelligence
Clerics get +1 Wisdom
High Elves get +1 Intelligenge
Hill Dwarves get +1 Constitution
Mountain Dwarves get +1 Strength
Halflings get +1 Dexterity
Humans get +1 to all ability scores, and an additional +1 to whatever their class bonus is
(For example, a Human Fighter gets +2 Strength for being a Fighter, instead of +1)
The second part of the human bonus is an assumption, mostly because it kinda makes sense, and it's what I would do. It's also possible that they just get an additional +1 to any ability score, not just their class's primary. What I really find interesting, though, is the original +1 to all ability scores. This makes up for htem not having anything like the really powerful racial features the elf, dwarves and halfling have.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 11:14PM
#12
|
Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
|
Checking the ability spread... that actually appears to be accurate.
It also makes the point buy system for class features that much easier. If we assume that a +1 bonus to a given stat is worth a single point, and that all races are given six points to start with, then we end up with a spread that looks kind of like this.
1 Point
+1 to any ability score
Low Light Vision
Stonecunning
Dwarven Speed
Naturally Stealthy
2 Points
Small Size
Dwarven Resilience
Keen Senses
Free Spirit
Lucky
Granted, that is all entirely arbitrary on my part. But it does give us a few guidelines.
First, a size change seems to be worth two points, at least when going down. When going up, it might not work out quite as well, but it's a good baseline.
Immunity to a single status effect seems to be worth either one point a pop. Free Spirit covers two (Charm and Sleep). It's kind of debatable if sleep is a status effect, but sleep effects are deadly, so I'm willing to count it as one.
Immunity to a broader descriptor like poison seems to be worth two points.
Advantage also seems to be worth two points for either three skills all the time, at least. Lucky is basically gaining advantage on a roll if you use it normally, though... it is kind of weird when disadvantage comes into play. Still this actually looks like it's possible, which is awesome.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 11:40PM
#13
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2010
|
Note that Stonecunning is a huge boost, since you can never get lost in a stone-based dungeon or maze. And while it's mostly RP, the other parts of it are also very useful. And a halfling's Naturally Stealthy is also incredibly useful. Also, a human (by your system) would have 7 points, if you count the extra +1 they get in there.
Finally, I don't really see why size small would be a cost at all, much less two points; it doesn't actually give you any bonuses, and prevents you from using a type of weapon.
Honestly, I doubt they used anything as precise as this. However, it does make a decent baseline. You just have to narrow down what's worth what a bit more.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 11:45PM
#14
|
Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
|
Ill be honest i cant see an abilty score based system without rolling stats being the baseline gen process. From what I can tell they are trying to discourage the "dump" stat which I agree with. There may be a point buy variation but this screams roll the die to me.
Always excuse the spelling, and personal opinions are just that personal and opinions. Getting Down with the playtesting of 5th http://community.wizards.com/dndnext/go/thread/view/75882/29139253/Complilation_of_Playtest_Feedback Compilation of Feedback post /bump please 
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 11:50PM
#15
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2010
|
Array works fine. And even if they (mistakenly) forget to include point buy, it's not like people won't use it. It's not a hard system to port over, really.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 12:28AM
#16
|
Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
|
Based on this entirely arbitrary analysis, for the sake of SCIENCE, I am going to attempt to create a playable race right now. Don't try this at home kids.
So, my favorite race in the Eberron setting is the Warforged. It's a good place to start, so let's look at what we need, using a bit of information from both 3.5 and 4E as we go.
First off, a warforged is a construct, if a living one. One thing I was not fond of in 4E was how Warforged could be affected by diseases and poisons. I could imagine that they could get gummed up somehow, but at other times it is a bit of a stretch.
Warforged also traditionally do not sleep. So far we have...
Immunity to Sleep (1)
Immunity to Disease (2)
Immunity to Poison (2)
Which puts us at five.
Warforged also do not eat, drink, or breathe. This is the hard bit, as I have no basis on which to compare that too. Is it worth one point or two? I'll go with two, as waterbreathing is a nice ability.
That puts us at the following.
Immunity to Sleep (1)
Immunity to Disease (2)
Immunity to Poison (2)
No Metabolism (2)
Warforged ALSO are difficult to kill. This can be explained by having Advantage on Death Saving Throws. Advantage for three things is worth two points, so advantage for a single thing might reasonably be worth one.
Immunity to Sleep (1)
Diehard (1)
Immunity to Disease (2)
Immunity to Poison (2)
No Metabolism (2)
That is a grand total of EIGHT Racial points before we even get to the ability score. Something has got to give.
We can ease things up a bit by adding a drawback to the race. Warforged aren't biological, and have to heal damage differently that other races, so that can be a signifigant disadvantage.
Maintenance (-3)
Warforged gain no benefit from Healer's Kits. When taking a short rest, they must expend a use from a special Repair Kit to spend a hit dice. During a long rest, a warforged may only regain lost hit dice and hit points by expending a use from a repair kit. Without a repair kit, a warforged still recieves all the other benefits from a rest, including spells per day. Warforged may use healing potions and magical healing normally.
This is actually two drawbacks in one. The first drawback is that a Warforged has to use Repair Kits instead of Healer's Kits. This is mildly annoying, as most parties will likely just have a big ol' Sack O' Healing Kits for the biological party members, while warforged have to have their own (potentially smaller) stockpile. That is worth -1 point.
The BIG part, which is potentially dangerous, is the fact that they also have to spend a repair kit to gain healing from a long rest. This adds a layer of strategy. If you use too many repair kits during the day, there is a chance you might not have one available come nightfall. The diehard ability helps reduce the chance of death due to this, and magical healing is a good stopgap in a pinch. It's not super balanced, and it might not carry through to all levels, but it's the best I could come up with at 3 AM.
So we now have the following.
Immunity to Disease (2)
Immunity to Poison (2)
Immunity to Sleep (1)
No Metabolism (2)
Diehard (1)
Maintenance (-3)
8-3=5! Which means we just need the ability score. The classic for Warforged is constitution. So here is our end result!
Warforged
Size: Medium
+1 Constitution.
Living Construct: Warforged are immune to Disease, Poison, and Sleep. In addition, they do not need to eat, sleep, or breathe.
Diehard: Warforged are exceptionally difficult to kill. They have Advantage on all constitution checks to avoid death.
Maintenance: Warforged to not heal damage naturally. They must expend a use from a repair kit during short rests to spend hit dice. In addition, a warforged must expend a use of a repair kit during a long rest to regain lost hit points and hit dice. They gain all other benefits of a rest normally. Magical healing (such as healing potions) work normally on warforged.
It isn't perfect. That last bit seriously would need extended playtesting. But it's a good example of the potential versatility of the system.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 12:32AM
#17
|
Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
|
Note that Stonecunning is a huge boost, since you can never get lost in a stone-based dungeon or maze. And while it's mostly RP, the other parts of it are also very useful. And a halfling's Naturally Stealthy is also incredibly useful. Also, a human (by your system) would have 7 points, if you count the extra +1 they get in there.
Finally, I don't really see why size small would be a cost at all, much less two points; it doesn't actually give you any bonuses, and prevents you from using a type of weapon.
Honestly, I doubt they used anything as precise as this. However, it does make a decent baseline. You just have to narrow down what's worth what a bit more.
Hrm... good point. Stonecunning and Naturally Stealthy are worth more now that I think of it. Small is definitely worth something as Halflings have only two (admittedly powerful) racial abilities while Elves have 3 and Dwarves have 4. So it doesn't perfectly match up. I've got a proof in concept though!
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 2:51PM
#18
|
Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2006
|
One thing I just realized is that ability scores have been evened out a bit due to the new skill/save system. They aren't totally even, but it's possible to make it easier to shuffle the bonuses around if there is rhyme and reason to it. I just need to see them first. Can't wait for the character creation build.
Spread your ability scores using the Elite Array:
15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8
Fighters get +1 Strength
Rogues get +1 Dexterity
Wizards get +1 Intelligence
Clerics get +1 Wisdom
High Elves get +1 Intelligenge
Hill Dwarves get +1 Constitution
Mountain Dwarves get +1 Strength
Halflings get +1 Dexterity
Humans get +1 to all ability scores, and an additional +1 to whatever their class bonus is
(For example, a Human Fighter gets +2 Strength for being a Fighter, instead of +1)
The second part of the human bonus is an assumption, mostly because it kinda makes sense, and it's what I would do. It's also possible that they just get an additional +1 to any ability score, not just their class's primary. What I really find interesting, though, is the original +1 to all ability scores. This makes up for htem not having anything like the really powerful racial features the elf, dwarves and halfling have.
Overall this seems pretty likely. Though I am not entirely convinced on the human one. It is possible the human is intended to only have +1 to all stats and that extra +1 in the wisdom is a sheet error. Given the number of little numerical errors on the sheets that is entirely possible as well unfortunately. Gaining a potential +3 to your class stat for being human would be quite the substantial boon for them.. even with the +1 to all stats that would keep their class stat at +2 just like a well matched race class combo, they are also getting +1 in everything else too. Still a substantial benefit when you consider how large a role stat checks appear to play in this edition.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 3:36PM
#19
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2010
|
Given the number of little numerical errors on the sheets that is entirely possible as well unfortunately.
The only error is the quarterstaff not using Dexterity for the two people who have them. Fighters get an unlisted +1 to attacks and +2 to damage in addition to Weapon Focus (confirmed by members of previous playtests). Certain races increase the damage die of certain weapon types to represent racial weapon trainings (confirmed by the new L&L) as well as Dwarves increasing their class hit die by one size. These aren't errors, they're just not clearly spelled out on the character sheet... which is a mistake of its own, in my opinion, but not an error.
Gaining a potential +3 to your class stat for being human would be quite the substantial boon for them.. even with the +1 to all stats that would keep their class stat at +2 just like a well matched race class combo, they are also getting +1 in everything else too. Still a substantial benefit when you consider how large a role stat checks appear to play in this edition.
Considering the large amount of very useful special abilities granted to the other races, I think this is about fair. Humans are the best at doing what it is they're focused on doing... and I like the idea of humans having a drive and determination unmatched by any other race. Demihumans have other unique special abilities instead. Dwarves are flat-out immune to poison and can never get lost in a stone dungeon or maze. Elves are immune to sleep and charm, and always have advantage on the three most commonly rolled checks in the game: Listen, Spot and Search. Halflings get two rerolls per day (this is pretty big due to the flat math) and can hide behind other people easily. Add to that the racial weapon training and other minor abilities, and I'd say +1 to everything, +1 to class primary is about on par.
Although I will say I think the halfling is a little weak, as-is. I'd replace naturally stealthy with automatic Advantage on stealth, climb and balance checks, and add their Dexterity bonus to their Strength to determine jumping distance. This brings back the agile, athletic halflings of old, brings them more on par with elven features, and removes the slightly immersion-breaking "I'm hiding behind the elf (who is presumably moving and ducking and jumpign around, and thus not at all a proper source of cover to hide behind)!"
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 10:24PM
#20
|
Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
|
I'd agree. I do like the ability for them to be able to hide more easily. In a normal situation, Naturally Stealthy is almost Hide in Plain Sight. But it does need balancing, yes.
|
|
|
