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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 3:02PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2007
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Thing is if you're DM is a jerk you have the right to not play with him. I for one find a that a bunch of rules that you need to look up every time you want to do something just slows down the game.
this is a quite simplistic (in my opinion too simplistic) approach.
a) you and your DM might not even know what he's doing wrong, the game then "just sucks"
b) people tend to play with friends. even if you have no good DM in the group, you may still want to play an RPG, and better rules help with that, as they alleviate the need for the DM to be good at all thre pillars of DMing: social skills, making or using rules/mathematics and storytelling.
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 3:08PM
#12
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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Yes, using miniatures and a grid is very useful for combat, movement and magic effects, but not just in D&D, in every roleplaying game I played, even the "narrative" ones like World of Darkness.
No, this convenience it's not enough to force everyone to use "squares" as the standard measure system, or needing a grid to understand what's happening in the scene (coffcoff4theditioncoffcoff).
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 3:12PM
#13
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(EDITED) Except chess has absolutely no variable qualities, is exactly the same, absolutely no concept of terrain, and has no modifying quantities at all. Chess is always won by removing the King of the other player off the board.
D&D has incredibly varied and different terrain for every fight. Are you fighting on a featureless grass plain every time? Then kick your DM in the shin. There are rooms. These rooms have things in them. Alchemists labs. Furniture. Frying pans. You fight on top of flying ships. On the side of a cliff. So deep underground there are pits of molten rock. You can always use the scenery to your advantage, or find somewhat to prevent your opponent from using it to his. Your opponents constantly change; rare is it you fight the same opponents over and over again. Your opponents have tactical options and can do interesting things. A D&D combat is won by accomplishing a goal. Yes, sometimes this goal is simple - survive. The best fights have a separate goal attached to them. Yes, you're at the bottom of a cliff after crashing your magical boat because it was sabotaged, and now the saboteurs have come to pick you off as you regain consciousness - you must survive, drive off your opponents, and also save the magical crystal that let your ship fly before it blows up and just kills everybody there.
I suggest if you don't like rules, try playing a game other than D&D - try Risus. I'm sure you'd really like it.
I've played the fourth edition of D&D for countless sessions. I played as a DM on the Virtual Tabletop Beta a lot of times, and also as a player for more sessions than I would care to remember. I have also played it IRL many times. I was a somewhat poor DM. Perhaps even a bad player. But D&D is NOT more difficult or advanced than chess. If you doubt me, just go on a chess site in the cloud and play a few games...
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 3:22PM
#14
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D&D has incredibly varied and different terrain for every fight. Are you fighting on a featureless grass plain every time? Then kick your DM in the shin. There are rooms. These rooms have things in them. Alchemists labs. Furniture. Frying pans. You fight on top of flying ships. On the side of a cliff. So deep underground there are pits of molten rock. You can always use the scenery to your advantage, or find somewhat to prevent your opponent from using it to his. Your opponents constantly change; rare is it you fight the same opponents over and over again. Your opponents have tactical options and can do interesting things. A D&D combat is won by accomplishing a goal. Yes, sometimes this goal is simple - survive. The best fights have a separate goal attached to them. Yes, you're at the bottom of a cliff after crashing your magical boat because it was sabotaged, and now the saboteurs have come to pick you off as you regain consciousness - you must survive, drive off your opponents, and also save the magical crystal that let your ship fly before it blows up and just kills everybody there.
Except that there is a lot more to D&D than just fighting and combat. To me, D&D has always been about the adventure and the quest and not so much focused on gaining tactical advantage in various situations. While a role-playing game can simulate a tactical wargame, it's not an essential component in a gaming session. I find that some players like that stuff, others don't.
I suggest if you don't like rules, try playing a game other than D&D - try Risus. I'm sure you'd really like it.
I don't think that anyone ever really suggested that D&D not have rules. I think that the point was that there are various depths of rules you can install into a game and that the playtest version seems to fit the style of quite a few players. By the way, Risus has rules, too.
The difficult thing here is to design a game that will satisfy the "realism" gamer and the "playability" gamer at the same time. The intent for Next is to build a simplified and playable rules skeleton to satisfy one group, then offer additional layers to satisfy the other group. It's not fair to pick on the minimalist gamer because he doesn't like the added details, any more than it is fair to pick on the maximust gamer because he likes so many.
Just my two coppers.
Marv (Finarvyn)Master of Mutants (MA and GW) Playtesting D&D Next and liking it! OD&D player since 1975
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 5:13PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2011
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I really like it also.... for what it is, a core rule set, i think it is pretty non-offensive, fast, interesting.... and best of all, adaptable.
Definitely I like role play aspects of DnD but also tactical -- i DM using a mixture of both (with battle mat and minis), my favorite DMs do too.... the way i see it, using this basic rule set with some tactical aspects thrown in is pretty much how i already play and describes the games and DMs that i seek out....
So good start!
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 6:01PM
#16
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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I really like it also.... for what it is, a core rule set, i think it is pretty non-offensive, fast, interesting.... and best of all, adaptable.
I agree with you. I'm already seeing the possibilities here with 5e and older editions. Until this actually comes out this will probably be my edition of choice. All of my 3.5, 4e, and other d20 stuff will easily be adaptable to this game when I'm ready to expand things beyond 3rd level.
I wanted to hate this, but had too much fun playtesting this with my stepson yesterday. I'm looking forward to trying this out with my regular group as well. (All signed the NDA)
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 9:13PM
#17
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2012
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I suggest if you don't like rules, try playing a game other than D&D - try Risus. I'm sure you'd really like it.
Not to be a negative nancy, but I've seen/heard about this Risus on FIVE different boards today, all in threads about the playtest. Please don't advertise other game systems while playtesting rules. I'm not even affiliated with these guys but I can't even convey how rustled my jimmies are.
Well sort of... But when we had to roll a d20 die, they had a d20 placed on "20" and just pretended to roll a die behind (beyond?) the screen... And then they snatched the really rolled d20 and hid it (pointing toward the falsely 20 die), shouting "I rolled a 20!"
That is how they do it. Beware.
Oh, so there were fistfights in AND out of game?
Because that would cause fistfights at my table.
Or at least, a lot of screaming all at once.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 07, 2012 - 11:51AM
#18
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I suggest if you don't like rules, try playing a game other than D&D - try Risus. I'm sure you'd really like it.
Not to be a negative nancy, but I've seen/heard about this Risus on FIVE different boards today, all in threads about the playtest. Please don't advertise other game systems while playtesting rules. I'm not even affiliated with these guys but I can't even convey how rustled my jimmies are.
Well sort of... But when we had to roll a d20 die, they had a d20 placed on "20" and just pretended to roll a die behind (beyond?) the screen... And then they snatched the really rolled d20 and hid it (pointing toward the falsely 20 die), shouting "I rolled a 20!"
That is how they do it. Beware.
Oh, so there were fistfights in AND out of game?
Because that would cause fistfights at my table.
Or at least, a lot of screaming all at once.
Well... This dastardly tactic was not revealed to me until years later. They were all in on it, basically. Perhaps I would have gotten mad at the time, but what they did basically was to cheat at times when the plot would have gone tits up if they didn't make a roll, or if it really advanced their characters. Isn't that what it's all about? Character and plot advancement? Clearing out a 30x30' room filled with kobolds with a fireball only goes so far, I think...
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12 months ago ::
Jun 07, 2012 - 12:35PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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I just get more and more excited as the playtest goes on. I'm already picking out what I want to DM first (thinking of updating The Sinister Secrets of Saltmarsh trilogy), and looking to convert a few of my old characters.
As I "get over" a few of my knee jerk reactions (no AoO, skills) I'm really starting to enjoy this new system.
'That's just, like, your opinion, man.'
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12 months ago ::
Jun 07, 2012 - 12:59PM
#20
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I just get more and more excited as the playtest goes on. I'm already picking out what I want to DM first (thinking of updating The Sinister Secrets of Saltmarsh trilogy), and looking to convert a few of my old characters.
As I "get over" a few of my knee jerk reactions (no AoO, skills) I'm really starting to enjoy this new system.
I too was thinking about converting Saltmarsh after we finished our first playtest session. That was the most Scooby-Doo-rific module in all of D&D history. An old manor on the cliffs by the sea? Haunted, you say? Game on!
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