The modern prices seem to accurately convey the *relative* value of war equipment. So if a chain shirt is 100 silver pieces and a decent “munition-grade” sword is about 10 silver pieces, you can pretty much figure out the rest of the costs based on their modern replicas.
Since a “decent” sword is about $500 (10 silver coins), and a chain shirt (maille byrnie) is about $5000 (100 silver coins), it seems theres a convenient value for the rate of exchange - at least for the relative prices of military equipment.
1 silver piece = $50
So, google a historically accurate weapon and armor maker, and exchange the modern values for D&D values.
Probably this exchange rate only works for armor - because it is a self-referential sector of the economy. The other sectors will be different because of modern supply and demand.
The D&D economy doesnt need to be perfect. Theres no perfect here. Prices fluctuate. (In ancient Egypt, silver was more valuable than gold at times.) Theres enough academic work on medieval prices now, albeit difficult to access, to ballpark the rest of the prices on the equipment list. The D&D economy just needs to pass the “smell test”.
I've always felt that D&D's pricing structure would be closer to "accurate" if you started with the current pricing scheme and just replaced "gold piece" with "silver penny."
There are very few items in game that sell for a single copper piece under the current pricing structure, and it's usually something dumb, like "1 candle." On the playtest equipment list, the only things priced in coppers are a single candle or piece of chalk (1 cp), a whetstone (2 cp), a flask or jug (3 cp), a ladder (5 cp), or one torch (5 cp). So that's easy...we take the current gold and call it silver, make the current silver copper, and eliminate the old copper piece. Then gold moves up to where platinum is now and platinum is even more special. As for the low end stuff? Candles and chalk sell by the dozen. Flasks and jugs are either pricier or you buy them in lots too.
Personally, I always thought the Basic D&D (and 4e) price list was better than the AD&D/3e one. Despite that, this playtest seems to use the old table. My guess is that it's still a work in progress.
In modern terms, very little costs less than $1. So make that a copper coin and go up from there. As is, since a coin weighs a third of an ounce, the D&D economy says that a dagger is worth 2/3 of an ounce of gold...or about $1000 based on this morning's trading price. That seems a LITTLE inflated. Like, about 10-fold.
When making historically accurate weapons and armors, it takes just as much skill and labor as it did during medieval times. Therefore, the modern prices for modern replicas have about the same *relative* values as the medieval prices for medieval originals.
Since we know what some items cost from medieval documents, it is possible to establish points of correspondence with the modern costs - and then extrapolate from there for the rest of items. Significantly, a decent medieval sword costs 10 shillings (equivalent to 10 silver pieces), while a chain armor shirt costs 100 shillings (equivalent to 100 silver pieces).
Unfortunately, Theres a big difference between the medieval 100-shilling chain shirt and the modern chain shirts that run between about $200 to $500. Possibly the medieval chain is high-quality (masterwork and elaborate) thus doesnt represent typical costs for decent armor, or possibly the modern links employ machinery to make them thus greatly reducing their labor costs.
Even so, the sword is definitely about 10 shillings (10 silver pieces). I saw one document list 10 shillings (someone bought three for 30 shillings), and a document from another time list 8 shillings. It seems to me, the principle of extrapolating proportional prices from replicas seems sound. Also, the prices in silver just need to be plausible. How wellmade the war equipment is can drastically alter its value, sometimes by 40-some.
All the prices below are rounded off for ballpark.
Sword, One-Hand: 10 sp (200 euro: 150-250 euro) (this is what a “shortsword” is, a normal sword) Sword, Hand-and-Half: 10 sp (200 euro: 150-250 euro) (this is what a “longsword” is)
Note: The hand-and-half longsword and the one-hand shortsword are about the same price for battle-ready swords (not including training swords or display swords). It seems the handles - fancy or plain - are what vary the price the most. The choice of sword has more to do with personal style than with prices.
On other sites, it can difficult to tell which modern items are actually usable in combat, and which are for costume - or even unwearable for building decoration. Heh, obviously you dont want to ride out to battle in aluminum armor! (But maybe thats what mithral feels like!)
Edit: Im also adding archery equipment from the same site, for relative values.
Longbow (Self Bow, English Bow, ash wood, roughly 73-inch unstrung, 185 cm, 150-220 cm): 6 sp (110-115 euro) Arrows (74 cm) (×10): 6 sp (11-12 euro ×10)
For me I think the main issue is that if gold is standard coinage at level 1, what's the point in copper and silver? Also I don't think PCs would start their career with 100 gold pieces - this would be a fortune the local lord might own.
If memory serves the books generally state that the PCs don't just walk into a store with 100 gold and start buying ****, the 100 gp represents things they've accrued on their adventuring career thus far.
Zammm = Batman. Bronies unite. "I'd call you a genius, but I'm in the room." It's my sig in a boxShow
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul:
Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay."
I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board.
Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other BarryShow
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic , giving you time to set up your silly combo . Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster...
Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil.
And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
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...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right?
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players.
And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it.
He/It got me with Light of Sanction , which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad , things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed .
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
For non-magical items, realistic prices seem more interesting. It gives a better sense of scale with an actual economy. Its neat to know, an average sword is worth an excellent cow, or 10 gallons of excellent wine, or the price of one book. Since D&D Next is making silver pieces the standard of the economy, this actually is the standard unit in the reallife economy - at least for the wealthy. The peasants dealt mostly in copper pieces.
Sources
Here is a tentative compilation by an academic from medieval documents. Despite the unfinishedness of this study, many seem to use this as one of the sources. (L1 = 20s) (1s = 12d) (1s = D&D 1 sp): medieval.ucdavis.edu/120D/Money.html
Here is a Harry Potter fan site that seems to have a surprisingly good listing (and analysis) of medieval prices. (1 pound = 20 shillings) (1 shilling = 12 pence) (1 shilling = D&D 1 sp): z15.invisionfree.com/Hogwarts_the_Histor...
If it was my game, I'd leave the equipment tables to setting-specific source books though. A full suit of metal armor might be worth 100 units on Faerun but might be 10,000 on Athas. A campaign set on Earth in the Dark Ages might be more barter based.
One concern I have with deriving prices from modern equivalents is that of raw materials. A 1H sword might cost 200 euros today, but how much of that is driven by the low cost of imported steel created in bulk in distant third-world countries? I'd at least try to use inflation adjusted prices from pre-globalization sources to get the prices to "smell better." Maybe say, early 1900s.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
When making historically accurate weapons and armors, it takes just as much skill and labor as it did during medieval times. Therefore, the modern prices for modern replicas have about the same *relative* values as the medieval prices for medieval originals.
Since we know what some items cost from medieval documents, it is possible to establish points of correspondence with the modern costs - and then extrapolate from there for the rest of items. Significantly, a decent medieval sword costs 10 shillings (equivalent to 10 silver pieces), while a chain armor shirt costs 100 shillings (equivalent to 100 silver pieces).
Unfortunately, Theres a big difference between the medieval 100-shilling chain shirt and the modern chain shirts that run between about $200 to $500. Possibly the medieval chain is high-quality (masterwork and elaborate) thus doesnt represent typical costs for decent armor, or possibly the modern links employ machinery to make them thus greatly reducing their labor costs.
While good quality (modern) armor and weapons are handmade, they use machine-forged steel. That lowers the raw material cost (and total price) by a significant amount.
My experience is slightly different than these prices. A sword for less than $300 isn't really battle-ready.
I suspect a shilling is closer to $50 in modern purchasing power. At 12 pence to the shilling, that would make a silver penny about $4. Which rather conveniently equates to a farthing (a small coin worth 1/4 penny) being worth about $1.
I mostly talk about England, because it's the country whose prices I know the best - other countries had their own coins.
In England, a pound sterling was 20 shillings, but for the medieval period it was a mark of account, not a coin. A "gold sovereign" was finally issued in 1583 with a value of 20 shillings. Prior to that, England had crowns (issued in silver and gold) with a value of 5 shillings. The Angel was another gold coin in circulation and it had a value of 10 shillings.
So in my mind, it would be "realistic" (and kind of neat) to price things in silver pennies, silver shillings and gold crowns (a gold coin with the same value as a historical angel). That currency would be roughly decimal.
This might imply, the price of metals go up geometrically, as they increase in mass. If so, its trickier to convert modern replicas into medieval prices. But again, the prices fluctuate across space and time (region and era), so just ballparking the prices allows a verisimilar economy.
I suspect a shilling is closer to $50 in modern purchasing power.
The thing is, items can differ completely between eras. For example, where 1 shilling is roughly $50 (and I agree), then a pound of sugar costs about $100 dollars! That is true for how valuable sugar was back then, but it doesnt help figuring out medieval prices from modern ones. So it isnt possible to apply the $50 exchange rate evenly.
I mostly talk about England, because it's the country whose prices I know the best - other countries had their own coins.
In England, a pound sterling was 20 shillings, but for the medieval period it was a mark of account, not a coin. A "gold sovereign" was finally issued in 1583 with a value of 20 shillings. Prior to that, England had crowns (issued in silver and gold) with a value of 5 shillings. The Angel was another gold coin in circulation and it had a value of 10 shillings.
So in my mind, it would be "realistic" (and kind of neat) to price things in silver pennies, silver shillings and gold crowns (a gold coin with the same value as a historical angel). That currency would be roughly decimal.
Heh, I love being able to say, “It costs ten silver.”
But I also think its cool to have synonymous terms, especially for different regions in game. Oh, and a decimal system is a must!
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