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1 year ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 9:19PM
#1
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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This is kind of an odd question but I need some help. My DM (who I have played with over the past several years) has recently decided to do what he refers to as "de-monetizing" our campeign.
Basically what this boils down to is that we can no longer buy items. Instead he will be providing us with items he decides we should have. The concept is that when we raid a dungeon or defeat a boss he/she/it will provide us with loot which we can take or leave (selling items is also out).
He gives 2 reasons for this. First is that, while some of our players look into item guides and what is provided in the player manuals, there are also those that don't. He feels like when he rewards us with loot those players who don't do their research just let all of that go to waste and as such drag down the team (since he bases the difficulty of fights and the like off of how powerful we should be within reason). Second, our DM is very big into RP and world continuity. He feels that our characters wouldn't really know about all of the different enchantments and items shown in the guides and as such wouldn't know to look for them.
Normally I'm pretty chill about playing (because our DM is quite good), but I really enjoy the aspect of character building and the feeling I get when I pick out that item that is perfect for what I am trying to accomplish with my character.
If I could get any suggestions about how to convince him that he is incorrect with this idea, or reasons why I am wrong (so that I can justify this to myself), that would be much appreciated!
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1 year ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 10:07PM
#2
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This is kind of an odd question but I need some help. My DM (who I have played with over the past several years) has recently decided to do what he refers to as "de-monetizing" our campeign.
Basically what this boils down to is that we can no longer buy items. Instead he will be providing us with items he decides we should have. The concept is that when we raid a dungeon or defeat a boss he/she/it will provide us with loot which we can take or leave (selling items is also out).
He gives 2 reasons for this. First is that, while some of our players look into item guides and what is provided in the player manuals, there are also those that don't. He feels like when he rewards us with loot those players who don't do their research just let all of that go to waste and as such drag down the team (since he bases the difficulty of fights and the like off of how powerful we should be within reason). Second, our DM is very big into RP and world continuity. He feels that our characters wouldn't really know about all of the different enchantments and items shown in the guides and as such wouldn't know to look for them.
Normally I'm pretty chill about playing (because our DM is quite good), but I really enjoy the aspect of character building and the feeling I get when I pick out that item that is perfect for what I am trying to accomplish with my character.
If I could get any suggestions about how to convince him that he is incorrect with this idea, or reasons why I am wrong (so that I can justify this to myself), that would be much appreciated!
Your DM has a very valid point about loot and how the difference in research and meta knowledge makes such a huge difference in players. He is right that just random treasure creates an imbalance with less knowledgable players. however he is taking his solution way too far, imo, and needs a more moderate solution to meet his needs.
The best is to tell the DM your concerns and offer some suggestions to reach his goals with more moderate solutions.
My biggest suggestion is that he divides the loot that is found into two different categories. Random loot (that can be sold and traded) and items that the DM selects for the characters. This allows players to customize their loot (with the random treasure) while making sure that every player has equipment that they need.
The second way to control treasure is to make items harder to buy. when I do this I use a random modifier, ussually 20% chance, that an item isn't available for sale or is more expensive. Or a chance that some items are unsalable, or just not valued highly (making it more worth it to keep and use said item then to sell it) The aim here is not to completely stop the players from buying what they want, but just to slow them down and give the DM time to ensure comparible items are found in treasure for other PCs.
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1 year ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 10:18PM
#3
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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Part of the problem is that he has already tried the idea of dividing loot (and even at times offering to go buy players items if they didn't care to look). In the end he wasn't a fan. We haven't tried the second option though.
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 7:34AM
#4
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What version of the game are you playing? It can have some bearing on the question.
My general reaction is that the DM can make available whatever items he thinks a player might want for his character - but it is not the DM's character to be making decisions for. Has the DM stooped so low as to actually ASK what the player wants for his character and why he wants it? Doesn't sound like it. Sounds as if the DM has a FIRMLY FIXED idea of what characters he wants in the game, what he wants them to be able to do, what he wants them to do PERIOD. THAT IS NOT HIS JOB.
Unless the distribution of treasure is causing genuine disruption (and NO, a character simply being unoptimized, though much to the DM's consternation, is NOT disruption) then the DM should keep his fat nose out of deciding FOR THE PLAYERS what their characters want, and will be permitted to possess or not possess in order to make them what HE wants them to be. Boy does he ever misunderstand his intended role at the table.
Old School: It ain't what you play - it's how you play it.
My 1E Project:
http://home.earthlink.net/~duanevp/dnd/Building%20D&D/buildingdnd.htm
"Who says I can't?"
"The man in the funny hat..."
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 7:43AM
#5
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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What version of the game are you playing? It can have some bearing on the question
We are playing 4th edition.
Has the DM stooped so low as to actually ASK what the player wants for his character and why he wants it?
No. In fact I've already talked to him about that idea. I suggested that if a player knew what he/she wanted then they could let him know and he could work it in to the loot but he didn't seem to like that idea.
I guess part of what bothers me is that he never asked any of us what we think about this. I understand that DM's must make decisions at times because either the game is broken or something doesn't seem to work right, but it seems like changing something that's this integral to the system is stepping over this boundary a tad much, or am I wrong in that feeling?
(I understand that I may be wrong, I just want to try to justify this in my mind if I am so that it stops bothering me).
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 7:46AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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Get your DM to play with Inherent Bonuses if he's playing a low-items game. Items are a key part of the game maths, you need them for the game to work correctly. If he's not giving them out, and not giving you a means to replace their position in the maths, he's Doing It Wrong.
Playing without items is possible, and can be very cool (Dark Sun ahoy), but you NEED to replace them, or the maths break down.
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 10:04AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Aug 23, 2011
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he could do what i do where a shop has preselected magical items within in based on my luck rolls and how big the town is. but no matter where they are there is a chance they can not get something they want. like i have a list of 100 shops and roll a d 12 to decide how many of the shops will be in the town. if they have no specialty stores that involve armour or weapons or anything magical at all the odds are quite low. now if they have a shop that is for a specific weapon or armour type i give them good odds with certain rules. the big one is that they can never buy a magical item that is higher level than they are.
this seems to work and even the best odds of finding something they want is no promise that they will have it. a big place like the size of a kingdom with a shop that specializes in say staffs for the wizard who wants a new staff they still have to roll a d10 to see if the shop has it. 1-9 it does 0 sorry try again.
although once or twice i have had a shop keep offer a reward of a high level item for a side quest but that was mostly when i was still learning how to manage giving out loot and their armour was sadly undergeared.
and the other exception with my party is that i let them buy potions of vitality because of the fact that their healer went into for want of a better term a coma and was taken away by an npc ally who they do not know where he went to they have no healer and even though they are level 11-13 i let them get that potion from some shops even though it is limited supplies.
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 11:32AM
#8
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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I will try with the inherent bonuses idea. I think part of the problem though is that he isn't nessecarily trying to play a low items game, he just got fed up with people buying items poorly.
In the best case scenario I'm just trying to convince him that, even though some players aren't good about spending their loot properly, its more unnacceptable to punish the players that are good at it because the others aren't. Partially because using the lowest common denominator is a poor choice for getting something done, and also because by taking that away it prevents the other players from ever needing to learn how to play that part of the game.
One of the reasons I'm asking for help is that my DM also happens to be my best friend. While I love playing D&D I value the friendship more (and I think if I stopped playing with them he might take it personally). In a perfect world I would like to be able to maintain that and be able to enjoy the game to its fullest but I understand that may not be possible.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 7:01PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 13, 2010
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Its really a campaign world choice how the magic item economy works. Personally, I have never liked the idea that characters can go "back to town" and start trading items that cost more than the life income of a commoner in the local shop. If such an economy existis, it should be riddled with mad wizards, demon princes, Efreet merchants from the City of Brass, and long, dangerous journies. Anything more than a +1 item or some potions or scrolls shound not just be lying around "in a shop". After all, by the time you can buy that +3 to +4 item, the serious question of why you would, rather than using the money to retire in comfort, comes up.
A solution that I have used in campaigns before is to ask players for a "wish list". Basically, what items would you like to see show up for the character. It gives the GM control (veto power, choice of when the item comes into the game) but still allows the player to have substantial input into their gear. It also allows for players who either don't care or aren't very good at choosing gear/character design to just sit back and let the the DM give them gear that he thinks is a good choice for them.
Edit- there is still the question of what you can do with gear once you are done with it, which I think is why 4th ed has the rediculous rules about selling for a tiny percentage of the buy cost. I once did a campaign where I let let character basically re-enchant their gear (homebrew rules using power crystals) as they went along, rather than switching out gear every few levels.
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 11:55PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Mar 15, 2008
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Step one: Invest in Ritual Caster
Step two: Buy Enchant Magic Item
Step three: Buy Disenchant Magic Item
Step four: Continue enjoying your game
"Not only are you wrong, but I even created an Excel spreadsheet to show you how wrong you are." --James Wyatt, May 2006
Dilige, et quod vis fac
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