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13 months ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 11:57PM
#11
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Posted this elsewhere, but here goes:
Okay, so there's a problem with low level resting / healing. 1st level characters can short rest once before they are done for the day and are basically forced to long rest. Clerics and healing potions delay this, but not by much.
What about a slight change?
Similar to gaining hit points, where the character's Con mod is the minimum gain but they player can roll a higher amount; do the same with "Hit Dice / Healing Surges". Characters have a minimum of Con mod natural heals per day. When their level exceeds this amount, they gain more. Granted, this entirely throws out of whack the "hit dice" correlation, but better to lose that then basically force players back into the 5-minute work day.
"And why the simple mechanics? Two reasons: First, complex mechanics invariably channel and limit the imagination; second, my neurons have better things to do than calculate numbers and refer to charts all evening." -Over the Edge
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 12:05AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jul 31, 2007
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Okay, so there's a problem with low level resting / healing. 1st level characters can short rest once before they are done for the day and are basically forced to long rest. Clerics and healing potions delay this, but not by much.
I don't necessarily buy this. People will just have to get rid of the assumption that you go into nearly every combat encounter at full hit points. Back in 3E, where there were no Next-style Hit Dice, we'd go until the healer ran out of spells or we found a good place to camp or something aling those lines. If I was down to 3 hp, I'd keep going with 3 hp. Our healers would generally wait until the last possible moment to use any healing magic. We didn't last long at early levels, but we'd last more than two encounters.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 12:09AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jan 17, 2010
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Okay, so there's a problem with low level resting / healing. 1st level characters can short rest once before they are done for the day and are basically forced to long rest. Clerics and healing potions delay this, but not by much.
I don't necessarily buy this. People will just have to get rid of the assumption that you go into nearly every combat encounter at full hit points. Back in 3E, where there were no Next-style Hit Dice, we'd go until the healer ran out of spells or we found a good place to camp or something aling those lines. If I was down to 3 hp, I'd keep going with 3 hp. Our healers would generally wait until the last possible moment to use any healing magic. We didn't last long at early levels, but we'd last more than two encounters.
I can appreciate where you're coming from, but Next is meant to appeal to a newer generation of players. And unfortunately this newer generation has a WoW mentality in terms of healing/HP. Which means losing health and coming close to dying or dying during fights is not an issue, but after the fight is over you always end up being completely healthy.
Don't look at me. I wasn't the one who introduced the mechanic.
Wizard's first rule: People are stupid.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 12:16AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Jul 31, 2007
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I can appreciate where you're coming from, but Next is meant to appeal to a newer generation of players. And unfortunately this newer generation has a WoW mentality in terms of healing/HP. Which means losing health and coming close to dying or dying during fights is not an issue, but after the fight is over you always end up being completely healthy.
Don't look at me. I wasn't the one who introduced the mechanic.
As a 4E-lover, I can appreciate the alternative, as well. That said, it can be fairly easy to break someone of this habit. Random encounters, lair repopulation, and a few other things can be used to discourage rampant resting.
Next is actually meant to appeal to all generations of players. It's meant to appeal to me, the 4E player, my friend who loves 3.5 and our grognard friend who got his gold DM card playing AD&D 2nd edition. It's not about appeasing the WoW kids; it's about providing a common ground for the WoW kids, the Eve players, and the people who refuse to let EverQuest die to play together. I'm not saying this is a perfect system at all, but it does strike me as the start of a good compromise.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 12:28AM
#15
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Okay, so there's a problem with low level resting / healing. 1st level characters can short rest once before they are done for the day and are basically forced to long rest. Clerics and healing potions delay this, but not by much.
I don't necessarily buy this. People will just have to get rid of the assumption that you go into nearly every combat encounter at full hit points. Back in 3E, where there were no Next-style Hit Dice, we'd go until the healer ran out of spells or we found a good place to camp or something aling those lines. If I was down to 3 hp, I'd keep going with 3 hp. Our healers would generally wait until the last possible moment to use any healing magic. We didn't last long at early levels, but we'd last more than two encounters.
1st-level Pelor Pete gets 2 1st-level spells, if they're both cure light wounds that's 2 spells per day that cure 1d8+mod each. Using Moradin Mike too? Two more spells, if they're both healing word, that's 2 spells per day that cure 1d6 each. Plus the one healing potion, another 1d8, plus the healer's kit. And that has to cover the entire party. In addition each party member can rest for their hit dice once per day, because they're 1st-level and only have one hit dice to use.
Each pre-gen has between 16-20 hp. That's what, 3-4 solid hits each before they have to be healed. They're not getting through that many fights before they're forced into a long rest. Yes, judicious use of healing, granted. But with a total of 13-44 magical healing per day, and one self heal, that's only a few fights before calling it a day.
"And why the simple mechanics? Two reasons: First, complex mechanics invariably channel and limit the imagination; second, my neurons have better things to do than calculate numbers and refer to charts all evening." -Over the Edge
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 12:32AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2004
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@Daror
WoW mentality? Even NetHack let you regenerate HP between fights. Mind you, this is a game that not only tried to emulate most of 2E D&D in everything but name, it also is one that offers few buffers to mistakes.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 12:37AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2012
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The way I see the long rest healing is that the Healer spends a great deal of time treating the chracters and aiding their healing if 10 minutes attention from a Healer allows a HD of healing at first level, surely when attended by the Healer for a couple of hours would allow the charcter to heal completely. I would make sure that a use of the healing kit for each character to heal completely would be used.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 12:50AM
#18
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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Personally, to me, the healing rules, as they are in the current playtest, ruins the game. I never played 4e, and that was 95% due to the healing surges.
Someone said they are trying to reach both old-school players, like me, and a younger generation. I fear that with healing rules like this, they will only reach the younger generation.
There are several reasons why I find the healing rules to be trouble-some:
A: It changes the game from a strateric game to a tactical game. At least partly. There is no saying you have to be able to go into every fight with maximum hitpoints, or even close. Conserving your resources is an important part of the game, as I experience it.
As a DM, I enjoy putting my players in positions where they may not be able to rest easily, and have they guessing about the difficulty of the tasks ahead; it certainly makes things more interesting for our group.
B: It does not make any sense. None. Why would you be able to get so many hitpoints back from a healing kit? Why can you heal yourself fully so fast? To me the rules have to make at least some sense. I am aware that some abstraction is necesary, and I accept that (the whole hitpoint system is certainly an abstraction). But getting this amount of HP back from a (non-magical) healing kit just does not make any sense.
I think I could live with the short-rest / healing kit system if we were talking about only a few hitpoints. Maybe 1d4 per character level per 24 hours, certainly no more than that.
I realize this might mean downtime for the party. That is the way it is. I am not looking for hard-core realism, but if you plunge into every fight every chance you get, hey you *will* get downtime. So if my party ends up having a 2-week downtime, hey maybe that will teach them not to attack a hobgoblin village next time ; - )
(And by the way, my party has never had downtime more than 48 hours, due to magical healing, which is a completely different story, because that is both explainable and a much more limited resource).
Anyway, just the 2 cents from an old-time gamer, who really *wants* to like D&D Next (and really does so far, except for this), but who can not see himself play it unless this is changed.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 2:49AM
#19
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Well, 4e Healing Surges were generally disliked, but this playtest suggestion (recovering all hp and hit dice with an 8 hour rest) is the most nonsense thing I have ever read in a role playing game system. Everything was going fine till page 13 (long rest), where it instantly became a total crap with only one paragraph.
Seriously, are they really proposing a system where characters can effectively be immortal as long as they can get a night of sleep?
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 2:53AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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Michael_Olsen, I also feel the healing rules are fairly out of whack, but for completely opposite reason. I come from 4E, and to me these HEROS are much too fragile to be of any real use, and seem just like peasants in tin cans, not trained fighters. The random healing is especially worrysome. rolling all 1's during a short rest after you were K/O'ed, none of my players would want to continue on.
Instead of the healing compromise as it is, perhaps they should have 2 rules modules, one closer to 2e and one closer to 4e?
My new rule for people who are obtuse is to just assume they're purposefully trolling. It makes me less sad for humanity that way.
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