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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 11:29AM
#51
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Date Joined:
May 31, 2007
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Lets compare
16 Dex fighter + Mithral Chain
vs
16 Str fighter + Adamantine
Same AC
More weight for the STR fighter
-5 speed for the STR fighter
1d8 damage dex vs 1d12 damage STR (4,5 avg vs 6,5 avg)
The problem is that the STR AC fighter don´t scale. If they start incrementing their puntuations/magical gear, the DEX fighter will outperform the fighter in exchange for 2 damage more.
And we´ll have to wait for the two weapon rules! :D
And then Martial was a new exciting new source of power, its practitioners manipulating the energies emanating from the plane of oiled-up burly weightlifters.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 11:39AM
#52
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DR is in AD&D, and 3rd......
Oh, my bad, I never played AD&D, though I could have sworn armor didn't grant DR in 3rd, I have a very distinct memory of thinking it was weird that armor made you harder to hit instead of reducing damage when I first stared playing in 3rd... Weird, I stand corrected I guess. Nonetheless, DR isn't needed to balance them.
Also, the dex guy should have the same HP, since he's gonna be dumping strength, not constitution.
Sorry, I was thinking Rogue vs. Fighter. But if they're both the same class, sure, they have roughly equal HP, but the strength guy still deals more damage, carries more stuff, can't lose his dex bonus to AC and kicks down doors like a champ, and the dex guy has a little more AC, moves a bit faster, and is better at balancing and stuff. Meanwhile you've got a medium armor guy who's a bit more middle of the road on both axes, but when it comes down to it also has a very similar AC. No matter how you slice it, the mechanical benefits and penalties are roughly equal between the three armor weights, the only significant difference being price, which I've already stated I think needs to be changed.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 11:42AM
#53
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The problem is that the STR AC fighter don´t scale. If they start incrementing their puntuations/magical gear, the DEX fighter will outperform the fighter in exchange for 2 damage more.
But you're speculating on mechanics we don't actually know at this point. There may be magic martial or heavy weapons that make up the difference. Or magic heavy armor may have higher bonuses than magic light armor. There's a lot of stuff that might happen, but we don't know one way or the other. From what we do know, the mechanical benefits are balanced between the two styles.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 12:13PM
#54
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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What if any feats could made heavy armors a better defense bonus?
Then you're paying a feat tax. Some feat tax is probably inevitable, but during an early playtest, the designers shouldn't fall back on that to fix the math. Instead they should actually just, you know, fix the math.
DR is in AD&D, and 3rd......
Oh, my bad, I never played AD&D, though I could have sworn armor didn't grant DR in 3rd
It didn't in core, but there was a very popular optional rule for in in Unearthed Arcana.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 12:22PM
#55
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What if any feats could made heavy armors a better defense bonus?
Then you're paying a feat tax. Some feat tax is probably inevitable, but during an early playtest, the designers shouldn't fall back on that to fix the math. Instead they should actually just, you know, fix the math.
DR is in AD&D, and 3rd......
Oh, my bad, I never played AD&D, though I could have sworn armor didn't grant DR in 3rd
It didn't in core, but there was a very popular optional rule for in in Unearthed Arcana.
Oh, well that's awesome! That's actually exactly how I think it should be done in 5e. I don't want DR in my D&D games (for admittedly irrational reasons, but those are often the ones we cling to the closest) but people who do like it and want to use it should absolutely be supported in that.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 12:29PM
#56
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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I think light and heavy armor is fine, its the medium armor that is the problem, its useless in almost all cases...why would anyone ever use Ringmail over studded leather? and it costs 10 more gold on top just to add more insult to it! Medium armor needs some adjusting, im not 100% sure what it needs to be, but I do like the idea that medium and heavy armor offers more protection in the form of DR, and looking at the intoxication rule made me think why cant that work with armor as well? maybe reduce incoming damage by 1d4 for meduim and 1d6 for heavy? Just my 2 coppers. 
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 1:43PM
#57
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Can't we just up heavy armor 1 point?
AC bloat is awful. It appears they're trying to avoid the whole AC and BAB arms race thing, so adding more AC could unbalance it the other way.
Simply boosting the heavy armours by +1 isn't going to cause AC bloat.
I think I'd rather see heavy armour's AC rise by +1 all around than adding a small amount of DR, but I'd be happy with either option. Heck, I'd be happy enough with a feat tree or class feature that did either of those, as long as it were restricted to heavy armour wearers only.
But something needs to be done. As things are now, heavy armour just isn't good enough; it needs to be a little better at defending its wearer in order to offset the penalties (speed, cost, etc.) that you incur by wearing it.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 1:48PM
#58
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2008
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I really don't understand why everyone is so surprised by this, isn't this always how D&D has worked? The advantage of light armor is you get to add your dex, the advantage of heavy armor is that you don't have to. I guess being able to actually have a higher AC with light armor might be throwing people off, but that's really how it should be anyway. Dex based characters are good ad dodging, they should be harder to hit, while the guys with better armor should be able to take more hits. Which they can, cause they have more HP.
No actually, upuntil 3E Dex was added (well technically subtracted) from all armor.
Splint+Shield+18Dex = AC 1 I think, which ~ AC19 in todays talk.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 1:57PM
#59
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2008
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I think the simpliest solution is to let medium armors have full dex as well, and heavy armor half dex.
The secondary penalities for Medium armor, and proficiencies will ensure that sneaky rogue types will remain in light armor.
It allows finesse fighters whose Dex is 14-16 to not get outpaced or slow themselves, and allows fighters with 12ish dex a to keep in pace AC wise.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 3:12PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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I think the simpliest solution is to let medium armors have full dex as well, and heavy armor half dex.
The secondary penalities for Medium armor, and proficiencies will ensure that sneaky rogue types will remain in light armor.
It allows finesse fighters whose Dex is 14-16 to not get outpaced or slow themselves, and allows fighters with 12ish dex a to keep in pace AC wise.
+1 this sounds good to me and is so simple that its pure awesome!
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