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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 6:08PM
#131
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Date Joined:
Jun 13, 2010
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Baronspam, oops I forgot them this morning thanks for the reminder. Also, I disagree. If the Fighter is alive, he can do his job. Think about how many times you've had to go 1 more round because the monster has 1hp left and kills a party member.
The 2 hp fighter will need to be healed every time he is hit. Even a creature with only a d4 for dammage will put him down on an average hit. If he gets hit one more time than than the cleric has healing spells he is dead. This is not doing his job. This is being a liability. Its also not remotely fun to play. Yet with random rolls you could have no con bonus and 2 hp at second level (not like you would make it that long). Likely? No. Possible? Yes. Unplayable? Entirely.
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 6:12PM
#132
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For this reason it is an extremely grave error to randomize hit points in any way, shape, or form. PCs are going to rely on those hit points now more than ever. It's just cruel to even allow the possibility that one fighter might end up with a significantly lower HP total than another through sheer bad luck with the dice.
I know this will be an unpopular move with some people, but as one of the core aspects of the rules, it's extremely important to get this right.
If randomness is the only option presented in the core rules, then I agree. However, there is no good reason they can't offer all three systems: random roll, take the average per level (which the playtest char sheets do), or max hp per level.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
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so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 7:30PM
#133
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I haven't read the whole thread, because it's long. But why not add the random HP as a small boon instead. My thought a first level character statrs with a flat number of HP's lets say 12 and either rolls an additional 1d12 or just takes half (6). Every level thereafter you automaticly gain 6 hp per level but every four levels you get to roll another d12 or take the average.
Would anyone be ok with this kind of system? Or, is it too much or too little randomness.
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 9:11PM
#134
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Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2004
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Hit points can be random - it is rediculously simple to houserule a minimum gain/level, max per level, whatever suits your game.
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 9:29PM
#135
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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A character made on fixed-HP can be dropped into a random-HP world and nobody would really notice. The reverse is not quite so easy.
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 9:38PM
#136
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Date Joined:
Jan 14, 2006
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Seeing 7 pages of "HP must NOT be random" makes me feel ashamed of being a D&D player and enthusiast.
People, especially seeing how Next is actually wrote, do you really think that we're NOT going to see a snippet saying "You can either roll your HP, take the mean value, or max out the Hit Dice, depending on what your DM decides?" - END OF THE STORY.
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 10:07PM
#137
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Date Joined:
May 15, 2008
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The default should be something that works best for new players.
A starting group of players probably wouldn't realise that they had a poor gameplay experience because the wizard rolled maximum hitpoints and the fighter rolled poorly.
I mean sure, to all of us, that's obvious. But we already know enough about game rules to houserule random hitpoints and stats in if we desire. Starting players don't know enough to houserule them out.
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 10:10PM
#138
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Date Joined:
Oct 15, 2011
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I haven't read the whole thread, because it's long. But why not add the random HP as a small boon instead. My thought a first level character statrs with a flat number of HP's lets say 12 and either rolls an additional 1d12 or just takes half (6). Every level thereafter you automaticly gain 6 hp per level but every four levels you get to roll another d12 or take the average.
Would anyone be ok with this kind of system? Or, is it too much or too little randomness.
I'm thinking along the same lines. I'm enjoying my first exposure to D&D with 4e, and the standard array is how my group and I play our game. I like the concept of rolling for stats, rolling for hit points, etc, but doing all of that seems from my perspective to be inviting a world of trouble from a simple combat perspective. A hit from a Monster Manual standard creature of your character's level is designed to hit within a target spectrum. Likely to hit, but equally as possible to fail going off of simply base stats. I worry that too much randomization at a base level (of stats, HP, etc.) would jeapordize the characters and eventually make them unplayable against threats designed for their Numerical Competence (the abstraction of a level). There's an argument to be offered for altering monster stats, but that would remove one of the best aspects of 4e for me, the simplicity of creating an encounter as a DM.
The concept of an additional die roll on top of a set HP gain per level ought to add more excitement to level gain without throwing off the numbers associated with threats that will appear that level. As long as the characters don't get absurdly powerful (perhaps the largest "Bonus HP" die should be a d8?) they can become just powerful enough, above where they would be with mundane HP gain to feel particularly Hurculean.
Toronto Dungeon Master
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13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 12:45AM
#139
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Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2005
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Seeing 7 pages of "HP must NOT be random" makes me feel ashamed of being a D&D player and enthusiast.
People, especially seeing how Next is actually wrote, do you really think that we're NOT going to see a snippet saying "You can either roll your HP, take the mean value, or max out the Hit Dice, depending on what your DM decides?" - END OF THE STORY.
That doesn't mean we can't discuss the merits of both and the deeper implications either option has on character creation etc. Pretty sure the word forum was like literally lifted from a place to exchange ideas, so what's wrong with exchanging ideas here?
Zammm = Batman. Bronies unite."I'd call you a genius, but I'm in the room." It's my sig in a box
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Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
Funny story:
InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game.
I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul:
Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?"
Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy."
Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb."
Me: "*Sigh*. Okay."
I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board.
Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious. 
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol. 
I have the same problem with women.
Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
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And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now.
O' Jesus
Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle.
Amen.
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears  would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic  , giving you time to set up your silly  combo  . Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills 
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
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13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 9:09AM
#140
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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I haven't rolled for HP since AD&D2, because my dice hate it when I try to be a player instead of a DM and never give me good results. I just take half dice at every level. And I prefer point buy to rolling ability scores, because it puts everyone on an even footing.
But for some reason, most of my usual players seem to really like randomizing their stats, including their HP. I guess the chance for advantage is worth the risk.
This is clearly something that should be left up to the players and DM. No need to insist on a method out of the gate.
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you loads
