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13 months ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 11:06AM #1
Janx_14
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 3,443
I don't understand the weapon balance at all.


The greataxe and the greatsword are pretty much identical, just the greatsword weighs 5 pounds less, this apparently makes it worth 250% of the greataxe....really?


The trident and the pick have a similar case.



Also, why does the heavy crossbow use strength to attack? To lift it? just seems odd.         
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13 months ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 11:10AM #2
Rake
Date Joined: Aug 27, 2005
Posts: 2,110
I really hope that crossbow issue is a typo...
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13 months ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 11:28AM #3
Janx_14
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 3,443

May 24, 2012 -- 11:10AM, Rake wrote:

I really hope that crossbow issue is a typo...




We disagree on alot of things, but I think we both agree that is just weird.

I think bows should be Dex or Strength if they want to give strength characters a ranged weapon, professional bowmen are ripped.

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13 months ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 11:37AM #4
kitiaraORraistlin
Date Joined: Jan 12, 2012
Posts: 21
That's a whole new can of worms though.  Stronger characters can shoot farther, but more dextrous can shoot more accurately?
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13 months ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 11:39AM #5
evilskeletonfish
Date Joined: Nov 18, 2008
Posts: 38

May 24, 2012 -- 11:06AM, Janx_14 wrote:




Also, why does the heavy crossbow use strength to attack? To lift it? just seems odd.         




Heh didn't notice that, funny.

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13 months ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 11:40AM #6
Mhaedros
Date Joined: Jan 13, 2010
Posts: 46
I am almost sure that the weapons rules are made with a much more different approach. They didnt balance weapons, they just made a list that reflects what they should do, so you can just choose what you like and feal will be better. In reallity I generaly believe that weapons shouldnt be balanced, weapons are about choice and effectiveness and this is why we dont use swords anymore :P
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13 months ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 11:44AM #7
mbrand
Date Joined: May 29, 2008
Posts: 76
My assumption (urg.. really hate having to do that)... is that the idea is that the Heavy Crossbow requires a great deal of strength to adequately wind it up (ugh, i don't know the technical terms and am displaying great ignorance!) for effectiveness -  thus, greater strength = greater effectiveness.

They apply this greater effectiveness for stronger crossbowmen as a Hit bonus. Dunno if i like the Strength = Accuracy in this regard... but D&D's combat system is pretty abstract anyhow. Personally, I'd keep the DEX for accuracy and add STR to damage output but I don't think the system will ever be able to realistically mimic weapon combat.
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13 months ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 11:47AM #8
dardor
Date Joined: Jan 17, 2010
Posts: 176

May 24, 2012 -- 11:44AM, mbrand wrote:

My assumption (urg.. really hate having to do that)... is that the idea is that the Heavy Crossbow requires a great deal of strength to adequately wind it up (ugh, i don't know the technical terms and am displaying great ignorance!) for effectiveness -  thus, greater strength = greater effectiveness.

They apply this greater effectiveness for stronger crossbowmen as a Hit bonus. Dunno if i like the Strength = Accuracy in this regard... but D&D's combat system is pretty abstract anyhow. Personally, I'd keep the DEX for accuracy and add STR to damage output but I don't think the system will ever be able to realistically mimic weapon combat.




If you've ever fired a crossbow IRL you'd realize that crossbows are by definition extremely accurate and don't need any sort of Dexterity to use. Strength to wind up though. So I don't see a problem with that.

Wizard's first rule: People are stupid.
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13 months ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 11:50AM #9
thesignbit
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 7

May 24, 2012 -- 11:06AM, Janx_14 wrote:

I don't understand the weapon balance at all.

The greataxe and the greatsword are pretty much identical, just the greatsword weighs 5 pounds less, this apparently makes it worth 250% of the greataxe....really?

The trident and the pick have a similar case.



The greataxe and greatsword rules reflect medieval weaponsmithing.  Axes aren't cutting weapons so much as they are crushing weapons.  So much of the hurt comes from being hit with so much weight driven into such a small surface area (the weapon's edge).  This also means the axe doesn't necessarily need to be forged to such a high standard.  It doesn't need to be meticulously weighted or balanced.  It just needs a heavy head, a sturdy haft, and a decent edge, whereas a greatsword needs to be forged with care and attention to detail so it has a fine edge and perfect balance.  Thus, the greatsword may be lighter, but it will be more expensive.

I expect, in game terms, that the actual ruleset (and maybe later playtests) will include fun things for swordsmen and axemen to differentiate the weapons.  And later on, that price difference probably evaporates thanks to the incredible wealth of high-level adventurers.

Or, the greataxe might always be a better choice than the greatsword at level one.  In world terms, this would be because no level one adventurer is yet skilled enough to make use of the finer qualities of the sword.  I would consider that a victory for the edition.

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13 months ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 11:54AM #10
Janx_14
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 3,443

May 24, 2012 -- 11:50AM, thesignbit wrote:


Or, the greataxe might always be a better choice than the greatsword at level one.  In world terms, this would be because no level one adventurer is yet skilled enough to make use of the finer qualities of the sword.  I would consider that a victory for the edition.




No its writing silly fluff for metagame. How many people really teach you to use an axe before you learn the "finer qualities" of the sword.

Also by D&D Next rules the Axe is a cutting weapon. 


Also while the fighter is struggling to learn the "finer qualities of the sword" the cleric and wizard are already warping reality.

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