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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 7:33PM
#151
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Date Joined:
Apr 27, 2012
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I'm sure there are "third way" people like Shirebrok but wouldn't most of us be happy with 1e,2e,3e style healing OR 4e surges?
I feel that both sides should just let go of endlessly striving for a compromise make everyone happy position.
Honestly I'm going to like a surge free hit point only system best and if I can achieve that easily then I won't look back. No need to belabor me.
Are there lots of people out there that dislike the 4e approach and yet really want the warlord with some other mechanic?
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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 8:25PM
#152
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Also, if hit points "already encompass" morale, etc., than why can't you increase HP through increasing morale? Just say you prefer it the old way and move on, don't try to Emerikolize the argument by bringing in or implying the dreaded V-Word.
For me, it is verisimilitude smashing. Don't take my not wanting to continuously debate a topic that's been beat to death elsewhere as an acknowledgment that you are right. We just disagree on the subject and obviously in the case of verisimilitude it can affect us in different ways.
I don't find that a shout of encouragement can make that big a difference. It would far more likely give a bonus to attack or something if it existed at all. And I especially don't agree that it can make a difference day in and day out within a small group of adventurers. It's like "yeah yeah I know it's gonna be ok."
Why not make it a magical like martial effect. Think of the Shaolin Monks and their (legendary) ability to control ki to the point that they can stop another persons heart (this is a real idea people have about them) from a foot away without touching them. Why can't a warlord focus their Ki so well that they can force wounds to close, arteries to be bypassed, and the immune system to work overtime on healing bruises and poisons? Its not exactly a magical force because it comes from within the warlord, but its more than the warlord just shouting words of encouragement...
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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 8:32PM
#153
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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Think of the Shaolin Monks and their (legendary) ability to control ki to the point that they can stop another persons heart (this is a real idea people have about them) from a foot away without touching them. Why can't a warlord focus their Ki so well that they can force wounds to close, arteries to be bypassed, and the immune system to work overtime on healing bruises and poisons?
So the whole point of the argument is that it's not believable unless it's unbelievable?
Does this seem a bit strange to anyone else?
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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 8:34PM
#154
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Think of the Shaolin Monks and their (legendary) ability to control ki to the point that they can stop another persons heart (this is a real idea people have about them) from a foot away without touching them. Why can't a warlord focus their Ki so well that they can force wounds to close, arteries to be bypassed, and the immune system to work overtime on healing bruises and poisons?
So the whole point of the argument is that it's not believable unless it's unbelievable?
Does this seem a bit strange to anyone else?
The argument is that if they don't like it simply change the fluff to match something they find more believable.
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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 8:36PM
#155
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Are there lots of people out there that dislike the 4e approach and yet really want the warlord with some other mechanic?
Honestly, apart from people badmouthing martial healing (which comes from a select group of people), I've never heard anyone say anything negative about the warlord. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm just saying that I've never seen or heard it.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 8:57PM
#156
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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The argument is that if they don't like it simply change the fluff to match something they find more believable.
If only. If only.
Too bad "yeah, well, you figure out why that works" seems utterly incomprehensible to the V-Tudes, who stubbornly insist the books detail the exact "how" and "why" over several paragraphs, and then proceed to pitch a fit if those paragraphs disagree with personal head-canon.
And May the gods have mercy on someone else at the table who dares answer "now how the hell is that bullcrap supposed to even work?" with "well, roll a D6 and add three"
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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 9:34PM
#157
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The argument is that if they don't like it simply change the fluff to match something they find more believable.
If only. If only.
Too bad "yeah, well, you figure out why that works" seems utterly incomprehensible to the V-Tudes, who stubbornly insist the books detail the exact "how" and "why" over several paragraphs, and then proceed to pitch a fit if those paragraphs disagree with personal head-canon.
And May the gods have mercy on someone else at the table who dares answer "now how the hell is that bullcrap supposed to even work?" with "well, roll a D6 and add three"
Well I mean if you don't buy that a martial character shouting words of encouragement can heal someone. Then refluff it as the Chi power of the warlord that transfers some of the warlords Chi energy into a form of healing like the Shaolin Monks were supposedly able to do. Make it a magical form of martial healing. The inspiring word is just the trigger that the Warlord has trained themselves to initiate the transfer...
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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 9:48PM
#158
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2010
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I don't understand havning a Character yelling, Suck it up, and you reach deep into your reserves of energy to fight on. I loved my Warlord that I played. Granted he was a Dragonborm Head hunter, who ate garbage whatever, and spewed stomach acid(dragon's breath) on his enemies. However, I believe recovery is a very important part that should appear in D&D. I mean when you catch your breath, or take a break, you rest, and can perservere for the rest of the day. So natural healing should occur and be addressed. However, I do think that catching your breath can only do so much.
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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 9:56PM
#159
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Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2011
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I'm sure there are "third way" people like Shirebrok but wouldn't most of us be happy with 1e,2e,3e style healing OR 4e surges?
I feel that both sides should just let go of endlessly striving for a compromise make everyone happy position.
Honestly I'm going to like a surge free hit point only system best and if I can achieve that easily then I won't look back. No need to belabor me.
Are there lots of people out there that dislike the 4e approach and yet really want the warlord with some other mechanic?
A compromise is inevitable, I believe. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the bolded part, but if you mean that there should be two distinct HP models to select from, then there are mroe potential problems than using a modifyable compromise. What happens when you have to different systems for a single mechanic is that you'll have to write additional material twice; once for each method. Over time, there will be favoritism, and one system will not be as supported as the other, potentially frustrating lots of paying customers. And I won't even go into balancing issues that may arise from this. I know like I sound like a broken record, but I firmly believe that a single, modifyable compromise is the best solution, for the sake of future content consistency and balance.
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13 months ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 5:16AM
#160
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Date Joined:
May 23, 2012
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I'm sure there are "third way" people like Shirebrok but wouldn't most of us be happy with 1e,2e,3e style healing OR 4e surges?
I feel that both sides should just let go of endlessly striving for a compromise make everyone happy position.
Honestly I'm going to like a surge free hit point only system best and if I can achieve that easily then I won't look back. No need to belabor me.
Are there lots of people out there that dislike the 4e approach and yet really want the warlord with some other mechanic?
Personally i think this HD mechanic may be a dealbreaker for me (my two big deal breakers were surges and 4E at-will, encounter anddaily powers). But I am not convinced it is for every one like myself who disiked 4e and healing surges (though based on what I have seen online a good chunk of us are pretty turned off by the idea. I say go back to traditional hp and healing (which lots of people had zero problems with) and add in an optional HD surge for people who want greater survivability or less reliance on clerics. Baking it into the core is a mistake because it will be a lot harder to opt out than opt in for something like this.
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