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1 year ago ::
May 21, 2012 - 9:43PM
#61
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Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2011
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And yes your example of how both can be modified to work for either way is good enough for me.
One might even say simple and elegant...................and user friendly.
Aw, thanks. 
Moderated by
ORC_Ragnar
on May 22, 2012 - 10:42AM
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1 year ago ::
May 21, 2012 - 9:50PM
#62
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Date Joined:
Jul 13, 2011
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I know, I just could not help but say it. Congrats on the, are those lair assult rankings?
MY DM COMMITMENT
To insure that those who participate in any game that I adjudicate are having fun, staying engaged, maintaining focus, contributing to the story and becoming legendary.
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules."
Gary Gygax
Thanks for that Gary, so now stop playing RAW games.
Member of the Progressive Front of Grognardia Suicide Squad
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1 year ago ::
May 21, 2012 - 9:54PM
#63
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All facets of the game are math, even resource management. The balance or imbalance is completely Dependant on math. And yes, this is probability. Due to the fact that your “text” description has a penalty modifier for injury levels. This modifier has an effect on other aspects of the game. Is it a typed modyfier? Does it affect both mental and physical activities? If it does then it affects all things based on those stats. Which in turn effects a change in the mechanics of the game by having altered, temporarily (oh great more book keeping) other mechanics in the game. It is one thing to say, "Hey if you guys used X mechanic to to this and this. Then you could scale it this way".
I was pointing out a section that a possible rules variant could be grafted onto.
I was saying that in the core rules, you could use "uninjured, bloodied, wounded and incapacitated" as descriptors, as in:
Player 1: "How hurt does the Hill giant look? Do I have a shot at winnign or is he laughing my blows off?"
DM: "He's breathing hard, bleeding, and favoring his left leg. He looks pretty badly WOUNDED" to you..."
I don't like wound penalties, personally...and I wouldn't use them. But some people want that sort of thing, so I was showing them a socket to plug them into, thus illustrating some of the flexibility of my preferred system.
It is another to say how the "Mechanical system" of what you are describing actually works. Without being able to show the math in a game mechanics format you have no ability to prove anything. Spend some time on the Forge forums and see how far you get with the "text" only approach to game mechanics.
There is no math there. This is not an equation that needs solving.
Or listen to Ryan Macklin's "Master plan", heck, maybe this is your call to action. If you can get this right then surely you could design more than just a simple system of healing. In the end if you still do not understand what it means to demonstrate how a mechanic works from a design perspective, it is not my job to educate you. If you are going to continue to elucidate on how your “house rule” could be of benefit you need to be able to understand how the smallest changes in a mechanic affect the rest of the system.
Wrting my own game will only only result in a lot of time and effort going into something no one will play. If you're not playing 4E or Pathfinder these days, then you just won't find a game.
Moderated by
ORC_Ragnar
on May 22, 2012 - 10:45AM
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1 year ago ::
May 21, 2012 - 9:59PM
#64
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Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2011
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Congrats on the, are those lair assult rankings?
Yup. Only played each once though. The only reason I got Silver on #2 (Talon of Umberlee) is because you get lots of points for not using a Healing Surge; my Avenger never got hit. :D
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1 year ago ::
May 22, 2012 - 12:13AM
#65
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2008
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Having only skimmed, I think you missed the actual reason why HD is inelegant: This edition features 3.5/Pathfinder style multiclassing. This means that Hit Dice will vary. You may have 4d10, and another 3d8. Which do you use first when this healing comes up? Do you roll it all at once? It's also confusing. I hear Hit Dice, and think "Oh, that's their level." Not "That's my amount of healing over the course of several days."
Moderated by
ORC_Ragnar
on May 22, 2012 - 10:48AM
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1 year ago ::
May 22, 2012 - 5:42AM
#66
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The HD system is making it easier to use some sorts of healing than others. OTOH from a standpoint of say AD&D it is creating an entire class of non-magical healing. There are plenty of other ways to limit magical type healing than HS/HD/Vitality/etc anyway. Wait and see how the WHOLE GAME works when it is all fit together. Using HD to regulate cures may well simply be a redundant and unneeded thing. Also I don't see how surge use streamlines anything. 4e has both surge and surgeless based healing. Neither type is 'more streamlined' than the other, and the fact that INEVITABLY if you have surge based healing you'll also have SOME surgeless healing I'd say a totally surgeless healing design probably creates the most consistent implementation. i don't know that I ultimately disagree with any of your conclusions, but I think they are at best quite premature. When I see the whole game, then I might be able to comment some more. I doubt that even the playtest stuff we get on Thurs will be enough to really know. It will all be tweaked anyway, but it will give us at least a better look at things. Until then? Not much of a topic to bother spending energy on.
Moderated by
ORC_Ragnar
on May 22, 2012 - 10:51AM
That is not dead which may eternal lie
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1 year ago ::
May 22, 2012 - 6:36AM
#67
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Date Joined:
May 16, 2012
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Having only skimmed, I think you missed the actual reason why HD is inelegant: This edition features 3.5/Pathfinder style multiclassing. This means that Hit Dice will vary. You may have 4d10, and another 3d8.
not saying you're wrong, but what is your source for multiclassing. I ask so I may better understand it myself, not as a challenge.
Parenthood: Gain rage class feature. While enraged, take ongoing psychic damage equal to half the child's level. Dealing damage while enraged is against your Code of Conduct and you will be depowered. ^^Wow, is that really how I came across in that personality thing or was this chosen at random?
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1 year ago ::
May 22, 2012 - 6:48AM
#68
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Is it really mandatory to have mechanical terms like healing surges or hit dice and such? What is the point here? I think Mike Mearls' definition of condition of a creature by commenting on the percentage of hit points the creature still have, has hit the mark. But I don't see any need for another dice math to be added to the game. If the intend here is to give the characters some means of mundane healing, and yeah it is, that is fine. Just tell how much percentage of hp the character regains by exercising normal healing techniques on themselves on a given rest period, that will work.
For instance say,
There are three types of resting. Short Rest (1 hour), Night Rest (6 hours including sleep) and Day Rest (24 hours including sleep)
All characters regain lost hit points equal to
1/4 of their total hp with a short rest.
1/2 of their total hp with a night rest.
3/4 of their total hp with a day rest.
All of their hp with 2 days of rest.
(note the diminishing scale here. this way characters will still need magical healing to recover fast.)
That's it. No dice rolls, no surge counts and such. It is simple and neat for the purpose Mearls was stating. And throw healing surges out of the window. Don't give martial and arcane classes any supernatural healing powers. Make sure clerics and paladins have more powers that reduce damage, instead of that give lost hp back.
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1 year ago ::
May 22, 2012 - 7:02AM
#69
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Date Joined:
Mar 18, 2009
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Healing surges imposed a limit on magical healing
I know it's from several pages back, but I'd like to address this point: I disagree that the healing surge mechanic in 4E imposed limits on magical healing.
First, there were no power source restrictions on healing surges; a warlord's martial healing powers used surges in exactly the same way as a cleric's divine magical powers.
Second, nothing in the healing surge rules states that a character can only heal HP by spending a surge - plenty of powers restore HP without even mentioning surges, and even those explicitly healing powers that do allow spending healing surges almost always heal HP in addition to what the character would heal with a surge.
With this in mind, the Hit Dice system for 5E will only serve to limit non-magical healing compared to 4th edition, which IMO is a bad thing unless a host of other game mechanics are revised to allow for the same levels of non-magical healing (e.g. being able to use healing items "for free," without spending more actions than 4E equivalent powers).
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1 year ago ::
May 22, 2012 - 8:43AM
#70
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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I get it. I became active on the boards again once I figured out they wanted input. I love D&D, but 4e does not work for me, so I want to see D&D be a game I would buy. I have Pathfinder ultimately, so if the designers do not give me the game I want, I will stick with that. I really have nothing to lose. I know I don't want a game that resembles 4e more than other editions. That does not mean I don't want any elements. 4e did some things right, adn I would like to see those elements remain. Ultimately though if the beast is closer to 4e than older editions, I won't give WOTC my money. 4e was an excuse to make non sensical changes to fluff independent of the rules. As much as the rules fix, I want to see the fluff fix. If they fail in that, I still have my older edition books that I can use with Pathfinder. Either way I will have no hard feelings. Right now though, I know WOTC is concerned as to why so many gamers left their fold. That give me hope they will listen, and with compromise, design the game I think should have been the succesor of 3rd edition.
Moderated by
ORC_Ragnar
on May 22, 2012 - 10:53AM
CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production.
D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
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