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6 months ago ::
Jan 13, 2013 - 12:31PM
#201
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Nausicaa, but you are the exception to the rule !
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6 months ago ::
Jan 13, 2013 - 1:06PM
#202
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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As such, any time any player wants to play a pacifist at a table I am planning to sit down at, I worry.
Probably because they play it as a leader. They should play it as a controller.
I agree with Nirafelos, but i'm accostumed to hate towards pacifist since Divine Power release...
Anyway, i can understand when CO players tell me that pacifist are mostly useless: playing in a self-reliant party, with enablers and competent strikers, makes you feel that healing is really pointless.
I can't sincerely understand critics when these comes from less skilled players or parties, where surgeless healing, thp and save granting becomes essential for the adventurers' life.
Because that surgeless healing, thp, and save granting is essential because the pacifist wasn't doing any damage and the monsters survived long enough to do a bunch of damage and force the PCs to need saves.
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
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6 months ago ::
Jan 13, 2013 - 2:02PM
#203
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Date Joined:
Mar 12, 2011
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Because that surgeless healing, thp, and save granting is essential because the pacifist wasn't doing any damage and the monsters survived long enough to do a bunch of damage and force the PCs to need saves.
Again, the degree to which a properly built pacifist actually slows combat speed depends wildly on the party and on the other leader you compare it to. A warchanter or properly built warlord is definitely faster. A shaman may be, depending on the strikers. A laser cleric may be faster if there's lots of minions, but really won't be otherwise. If the pacifist is slapping -8 to defenses on targets, or giving them vulnerable 17 all, or forcing them to provoke 3+ OAs/round, they really aren't slowing combat down compared to anything but the most extremely optimized enabling leaders. Everything is relative, obviously, but a sentinel or warpriest or bad artificer or runepriest or really almost any non-optimized leader contributes meaningless personal damage to the party, so it's not as big of a loss as some people like to make it out to be.
Obviously, if your party lacks any semi-decent MBAs, cause fear loses value, but so does traditional enabling. Obviously, if your allies are too bad to capitalize on large vulnerability or huge defense penalties, you'd be better off playing a striker because it's THEM slowing combat down, not the pacifist.
And again, I'm not arguing that it's better than really anything, I'm just saying that there's a misconception here on CO that it's a lot worse than it is. Much like almost any other build of any other class, it's as good or as bad as power selection, player tactics, party composition, and party tactics make it.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 13, 2013 - 2:31PM
#204
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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And again, I'm not arguing that it's better than really anything, I'm just saying that there's a misconception here on CO that it's a lot worse than it is. Much like almost any other build of any other class, it's as good or as bad as power selection, player tactics, party composition, and party tactics make it.
At its very best, it doesn't do anything that a regular Cleric can't also do, except it can heal more effectively. And at the same time, it can't effectively finish off bloodied opponents. Given it costs a feat, it usually isn't a good trade on that basis alone.
On the basis that it also means giving up some sky blue power choices that do damage, it isn't like other builds.
And for me, in my experience, I've played with players who were reasonably good at tactics when not playing pacifists, but then dropped off a cliff and caused problems with their inability to just do some damage when things went wrong at the table.
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
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6 months ago ::
Jan 13, 2013 - 5:09PM
#205
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2013
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Wow...what have I done...
In all fairness most of the people in this campaign had never played 4e before I started it. "our party has 3 people who do a ton of damage but don't have any hp. They'll kill the monsters pretty fast if I can just keep them alive." Is a pretty reasonable viewpoint to someone who doesn't know just how much enabling a leader can do. Especialy because we started the campaign as PHB1 only, so about the only thing the cleric could do was heal a lot.
I remember Netrunner and Hecatomb.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 13, 2013 - 6:49PM
#206
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Date Joined:
Jun 26, 2006
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You might be playing DnD wrong if ...
You are a human Knight who started with stats of 18 15 11 10 10 13, boosted CHA and CON at 4 and then STR and DEX at 8, spends an entire turn doing nothing but switching from +2 flaming maul to non-magical broadsword and shield (because, "I have a shield ability and now I'm harder to hit!") and takes a bard multiclass feat all in the name of "roleplaying."
Had to get that one off my chest.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 3:18PM
#207
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2013
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Sorry to necro this one, but we were playing and this one came up:
"If you're rolling d6s for sneak attack damage, you might be playing D&D wrong."
I remember Netrunner and Hecatomb.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 3:33PM
#208
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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Or you might be a level 1 non-human rogue (light blade expertise before backstabber).
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5 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 7:37PM
#209
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2010
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Sorry to necro this one, but we were playing and this one came up:
"If you're rolling d6s for sneak attack damage, you might be playing D&D wrong."
Or you took one of the elemental +dmg options, or, as Fardiz mentioned, LBE since they work with your standard and minor attacks. Backstabber is usually the 3rd or 4th feat I pick up on a rogue.
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2 months ago ::
Apr 18, 2013 - 11:39AM
#210
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Date Joined:
Nov 26, 2009
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You think going invisible makes you stealthy
You think being stealthy makes you invisible (And are not using invisibility)
RPGtable username : RTiger
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