|
4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 9:49AM
#781
|
Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2007
|
Q358: This has been asked a few times before, but with the release of the Barbarian, I think I need some clarification?
When do Martial Dice regenerate?
The Barbarian class states that "You regain your spent martial damage dice at the start of each turn, whether it’s your turn or someone else’s."
While the Fighter class states that: "When you spend a martial damage die, you cannot use it again on the same turn."
By this logic, it seems that the Barbarian regenerates his martil die MUCH more often than the Fighter class, even though they both have the same pool. Is this supposed to be a difference between the classes?
Thanks!
Ha, they cleaned up the wording for the Barbarian, but forgot to amend the Fighter.
They replenish every turn.
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 9:52AM
#782
|
|
|
Q359: Since there is no distinct rule about attacking while not being seen can we assume that they meant for the invisibility rules to cover that? AKA there is nothing that states that there is any effect of attacking while you are heavily obscured from your target (let’s say in darkness) but there is the statement regarding an invisible creature:
"An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured."
I feel this covers a creature in darkness just as much as a potion of invisibility. in the current situation (The attackers turn) there is no way short of it creating its own light source or walking into the light of suddenly becoming visible unless the target has darkvision (special sense) or detect undead or True seeing active (both magic senses).
Under the rules for Heavily Obscured it reads: A heavily obscured area typically contains darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage. A creature in a heavily obscured area is out of sight
So to me regardless of how you are not able to be seen (darkness, dense foliage, or invisibility) you have advantage on the target, assuming you can clearly see them and other factors aren't at play. Am I right with this rules extrapolation?
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 1:51PM
#783
|
Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2012
|
Q359: Since there is no distinct rule about attacking while not being seen can we assume that they meant for the invisibility rules to cover that? AKA there is nothing that states that there is any effect of attacking while you are heavily obscured from your target (let’s say in darkness) but there is the statement regarding an invisible creature:
"An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured."
I feel this covers a creature in darkness just as much as a potion of invisibility. in the current situation (The attackers turn) there is no way short of it creating its own light source or walking into the light of suddenly becoming visible unless the target has darkvision (special sense) or detect undead or True seeing active (both magic senses).
Under the rules for Heavily Obscured it reads:
A heavily obscured area typically contains darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage. A creature in a heavily obscured area is out of sight
So to me regardless of how you are not able to be seen (darkness, dense foliage, or invisibility) you have advantage on the target, assuming you can clearly see them and other factors aren't at play. Am I right with this rules extrapolation?
I think you are correct. Not seeing the opponent is practically the same as him being invisible - but Plaguescarred or Fluxpoint can probably answer it with more certainty.
I just want to say since you mentioned it (and since I have asked several similar questions a while back ), that the rules for Stealth and the 'Hide in Shadows' feat make for a very overpowered combination. 'Hide in Shadows' in essence allows you to be practically invisible when you would be 'lightly obscured' and that results to a rogue being practically invisible at will.
- 'Lightly Obscured' applies to dim light and that means after sundown and in most dungeon conditions a rogue is practically invisible. - You only need to make one roll for the entire duration of hiding - that means that the player is going to roll until he gets it just right and then move like he has a ring of invisibility. - Most NPCs or monsters aren't able to notice you since even an average 1d20 + DEX score + 1d6 Skill result more than covers what most NPCs or monster's 1d20+WIS roll can achieve. Even then, they only get one such roll since multiple WIS checks require active searching. - You move at full speed when moving silently so there is no need to ever 'switch invisibility off'.
In my table this has created a First Order Optimal Strategy, and currently two players (rogue/wizard) think the best thing they can do is hide /attack from the shadows/hide again. To this I must add that hiding this way totally ruins suspension of disbelief. I hope they fix it in the next packages.
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 3:30PM
#784
|
Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
|
A359: Being out of sight doesn't make you inherently invisible. It makes you heavily obscured though, which enables you to try to hide ( How To Play PDF pg. 08). Condition For Stealth: A creature in a heavily obscured area is out of sight, just as it if were hiding behind an obstruction, and thus can try to hide.
Yan Montréal, Canada
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 4:44PM
#785
|
|
|
But it doesn't matter if your hidden you just can't be seen. What is the difference between not being seen because a spell is causing you to be transparent or not being seen because you are in darkness or opaque fog? If the only fact is you can't be seen to get advantage on the attack. AKA what is the state of being invisible? Per text:
An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.
pg 20 of how to play
There is nothing there that says the condition of invisiblity requires magic exclusively to create that state. A creature that can't be seen without magical aid or special senses is true for both a magical spell hiding a creature or darkness hiding a creature. Both states can be ended in other ways AKA dispel magic or lighting a torch but until something changes the state that is cause the condition of invisibility the creature should benefit from that condition regardless of how it caused it.
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 4:55PM
#786
|
Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
|
What is the difference between not being seen because a spell is causing you to be transparent or not being seen because you are in darkness or opaque fog?
The difference is that a spell (or other effect) specifically make you Invisible and being out of sight doesn't make you invisible specifically.
It could be easier to simply say that being out of sight makes you invisible, but the current rules don't say so. Invisible is a distinct condition and an effect doesn't make you invisible unless it specifically say so.
Yan Montréal, Canada
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 5:53PM
#787
|
|
|
But you have to be careful to say that a rule of condition is only possible if something states that it causes that specific condition. Case in point the state of being prone. While there are plenty of states, effects, and conditions that specifically state they cause the condition prone there is nothing that explicitly states you can opt to so of your own accord by simply dropping to the ground.
It seems to follow that just as it makes sense that there are ways to attain a prone position without an explicate rule saying that’s what happens you can be in the condition of invisible to a creature if it can't see you without the specific statement of "causes invisibility"
Sorry to be a pain but this has come up more than once that kobolds or goblins have been 10 or 20 feet outside the range of the PCs light source at night or in dark caves. The Kobolds or Goblins were using ranged attacks and we wondered why they wouldn't have advantage on their attacks since the PCs couldn't see them based on the new rules. I just wished they'd been clearer about the condition of invisibility and or the state of being unseen (Some would argue those are the same thing, I would be one of them)
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 6:16PM
#788
|
Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
|
The difference between dropping prone and being out of sight is that the latter is covered in the playtest packet and it doesn't make you invisible, but obscured.
Here's another exemple; if you look at darkness, it explains that normal creature can't see in darkness (out of sight) and that a creature in darkness is heavily obscured from creatures without enhanced senses. It doesn't say you are invisible while in darkness, even though you can't be seen.
Yan Montréal, Canada
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 6:37PM
#789
|
|
|
I will stop the ping pong now but I will leave ya with this. I feel that regardless of how you get there, being in a state where you are unseen to a target should incure the same rules. I hope they clarify the state of being unseen/invisible/obscured etc... in the future, because for now it appears to suppend belief that the bonus you gain is based on why your not being seen as opposed to the simple fact that you aren't being seen.
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 6:45PM
#790
|
Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
|
I agree this could be clarified.
Yan Montréal, Canada
|
|
|