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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 9:59AM
#311
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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Same goes for Cavaliers vs Paladins, Berserkers vs Wardens, Hunters vs Druids, and Skalds vs Clerics. None of those classes are the best at what they do, but they perform adequately in their respective roles in heroic without having to jump through all sorts of weird hoops.
I think the basic issue is that we're talking about newer players here. They get attached to characters. They assume flaws in play are due to them not understanding the tactics, not their character. Even if given warning labels saying otherwise, some of them will want to keep playing that character.
I don't think the builds should be expected to function strongly all the way throughout Epic.
But if the thread is handing out 8th level characters, there should be an obvious route into Paragon which doesn't suck. If it is recommending characters who can get easily crushed(aka melee strikers who win initiative, attract a lot of attention with a nova, and then get focus fired), show or build to not have that happen.
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
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Builds
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 12:28PM
#312
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2010
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I'm of the mind that we could/should make a comprehensive list of classes/builds and rank them from most to least playable. Use the color coding system from the handbooks and work from there.
Every class should get representation and should have a very clear disclaimer denoting its functionality at the table.
I know many people like to think that because the title is 'optimization' that it must mean the absolute epitome of death raining down, but there is a scale of op and I think we're being negligent if we don't aknowledge that fact.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 1:45PM
#313
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2011
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It's really an issue of whether we optimize according to what's best overall or what's best given some specific conditions. There may be an optimal vampire build, but no vampire build is optimal in the context of all possible builds.
In my view, this forum is meant more for optimizing within constraints, otherwise we're done as soon as someone finds an infinite damage loop (okay, everyone just play PunPun!). Which means when someone says "I want to play a vampire," it's more in the purpose of the forum to say "okay, here is the best vampire you can be," rather than pointing them to the ranger handbook.
I am okay with you saying my argument is stupid, or commits the munchkin fallacy, or any other bad thing you want. Particularly if you give a reason/explanation for it.
However, I will ignore any post that calls me stupid, or a munchkin, or what have you. Not because it bothers me; I've just found that people only start name-calling when that's the best argument they have left.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 1:47PM
#314
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2010
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It's really an issue of whether we optimize according to what's best overall or what's best given some specific conditions. There may be an optimal vampire build, but no vampire build is optimal in the context of all possible builds.
In my view, this forum is meant more for optimizing within constraints, otherwise we're done as soon as someone finds an infinite damage loop (okay, everyone just play PunPun!). Which means when someone says "I want to play a vampire," it's more in the purpose of the forum to say "okay, here is the best vampire you can be," rather than pointing them to the ranger handbook.
I think your post sums up where I am coming from quite nicely.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 1:49PM
#315
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Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2009
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It's really an issue of whether we optimize according to what's best overall or what's best given some specific conditions. There may be an optimal vampire build, but no vampire build is optimal in the context of all possible builds.
In my view, this forum is meant more for optimizing within constraints, otherwise we're done as soon as someone finds an infinite damage loop (okay, everyone just play PunPun!). Which means when someone says "I want to play a vampire," it's more in the purpose of the forum to say "okay, here is the best vampire you can be," rather than pointing them to the ranger handbook.
+1
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 2:12PM
#316
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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It's really an issue of whether we optimize according to what's best overall or what's best given some specific conditions. There may be an optimal vampire build, but no vampire build is optimal in the context of all possible builds.
In my view, this forum is meant more for optimizing within constraints, otherwise we're done as soon as someone finds an infinite damage loop (okay, everyone just play PunPun!). Which means when someone says "I want to play a vampire," it's more in the purpose of the forum to say "okay, here is the best vampire you can be," rather than pointing them to the ranger handbook.
+1
+2
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 4:51PM
#317
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Lah Dee Dah
Happy you agree with what someone else suggested for the thread you started and have stopped maintaining.
However, for that to work there needs to be a direction, sctructure, etc, all of which are lacking here.
If you really want to do this, think it through, and start over.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 5:11PM
#318
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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Lah Dee Dah
Happy you agree with what someone else suggested for the thread you started and have stopped maintaining.
However, for that to work there needs to be a direction, sctructure, etc, all of which are lacking here.
If you really want to do this, think it through, and start over.
stopped maintaining?
I update it whenever I'm home for more than a couple of hours and don't have to sleep. Yes thats only like 1/week but saying I don't update is just incorrect.
Editted the OP:
Added all the builds that were completed since last update. I also moved the Bladesinger to striker and made a note that directs people wanting to play a Bladesinger to the striker section.
As it stands we still need the following:
Leaders (2)
- Bard (Skald)
- Druid (Sentinel)
Defenders None! Excellent work people. Controllers (5)
- Druid
- Hunter
- Seeker
- Sha'ir
- Witch
Strikers (3)
- Assassin
- Blackguard
- Warlock
Lastly I understand this flaunts my ignorance, but I don't know how to turn a hyperlink into a name. For example I would like for Baldhermit's rogue entry to say "Crossbow Rogue" so that we can start having useful ways to add extra builds to the index.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 5:56PM
#319
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2010
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Pregen_Characters_-_Good_and_SimpleThe simplest method is to type out the text you want, highlight it, then use the forum editor's link function (The chain button) to add the link. It will automatically generate the link as part of the highlighted text.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 5:59PM
#320
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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Pregen_Characters_-_Good_and_Simple
The simplest method is to type out the text you want, highlight it, then use the forum editor's link function (The chain button) to add the link. It will automatically generate the link as part of the highlighted text.
Gotcha, I'll start doing that for the builds.
Edit: I updated the Defender's section (since it is complete) with a slightly new format that should allow for more than one entry per class. Thoughts?
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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