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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 6:33AM #161
Mommy_was_an_Orc
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Posts: 4,988

Dec 27, 2012 -- 3:58AM, svendj wrote:

FINAL ABILITY SCORES

STR 15, CON 18, DEX 11, INT 8, WIS 16, CHA 10

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 16, DEX 11, INT 8, WIS 16, CHA 10
Level 8: Armor Proficiency: Plate

The feat Heavy Blade Opportunity is mandatory at level 11, but you have to put some points into Dex instead of Wis to qualify for that. Another interesting feat is Mark of Warding since it increases you mark penalty.



I think if there are mandatory options at 11th, the build should reflect that so a new player doesn't get completely screwed when they're playing it in game and only then realize what you meant. A build of Str 15, Con 18, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 10 doesn't lose all that much at all, gains +2 Ref/Init at a cost of -1 Will.

I think Armor Proficiency(Plate) tends to be highly overrated for most characters. Nice if you have it from the start, but +1 AC with penalties to physical skills at the cost of a feat is very costly. Particularly when you have +2 Fort and ignore a lot of ongoing damage or +1 Fort/Ref that will continue to jump into Paragon. Going with the stats, Improved Initiative can be really good here - +10 Initiative is nothing shabby at 8th level, and being able to mark targets before they get to go before the fragile striker gets pounded into mush can really limit Team Monster's options.
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 7:33AM #162
GelatinousOctahedron
Date Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 5,740

Dragonborn Battle Cleric ***


This is a fairly straightforward cleric of Ioun build that focuses on buffing its allies attacks and defenses and helps them make sure they hit with their powers. It also does fairly decent damage itself.  The 3 stars is mainly because you have a lot of buffs to keep track of and you have minor action and immediate action attacks starting at level 1.  Any deity with the skill domain works and it works best with a two handed simple weapon like a morningstar.

Level 1 


level 1 templar Show


Your healing word lets you or an ally spend a surge +1d6 at level one and and gives the target of the power a +2 to hit until the end of its next turn.  At level 1 you have a daily Shield of the Gods that hands out a nice shield bonus, at wills that give attack (Righteous Brand) and defense bonuses (Weapon of Divine Protection) to allies, and Sundering Might that lets allies attack the targets lowest defense. 


You get one use of a channel divinity power each encounter, either Favor of the Gods which lets an ally reroll a miss or Punish the Profane, which is a good melee attack vs undead.  You also get to use Dragonbreath once an encounter and if a nearby ally is targetted with an attack you can use Guardian’s Counter on the enemy as an immediate interrupt.   Because it has Power of Skill, when you use Guardian’s Counter, make a charge, or make an OA you can use Righteous Brand in place of a basic attack.  You are very good at athletics and diplomacy and you have +1 to all trained skills because of power of skill. 

You can switch your dex and wis scores around if you want to, since you are not getting much fromeither of them.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Battleish Clericish, level 1
Dragonborn, Cleric (Templar)
Build: Battle Cleric
Cleric Option: Battle Cleric's Lore
Dragonborn Racial Power Option: Dragon Breath
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Lightning
Disciplined Soldier (Athletics class skill)
Theme: Guardian
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 20, CON 12, DEX 8, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 14
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 12, DEX 8, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 12
 
 
AC: 19 Fort: 15 Ref: 11 Will: 14
HP: 24 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 7
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +7, Athletics +11, Diplomacy +8, Religion +7
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics –1, Bluff +2, Dungeoneering +0, Endurance +1, Heal +0, History +3, Insight +0, Intimidate +4, Nature +0, Perception +0, Stealth –1, Streetwise +2, Thievery –1
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Guardian Attack: Guardian's Counter
Dragonborn Racial Power: Dragon Breath
Cleric Utility: Favor of the Gods
Cleric Attack: Punish the Profane
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Cleric Attack 1: Righteous Brand
Cleric Attack 1: Weapon of Divine Protection
Cleric Attack 1: Sundering Might
Cleric Attack 1: Shield of the Gods
 
FEATS
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Power of Skill
 
ITEMS
Ritual Book
Tenser's Floating Disk
Brew Potion
Morningstar x1
Scale Armor x1
Adventurer's Kit
Javelin
====== End ======


Level 5

level 5 templar Show

You can give allies a +2 power bonus to their ac all encounter once a day through Shield of Faith, Words are Not Enough dazes up to two enemies, and Hallowed Advance lets an ally teleport, spend a surge, and make a MBA with a +2 to hit from Battle Clerics Lore.  Your Healing Word now heals you 5 when you use it on anyone because of battle healer and whoever is the target of Healing Word gets a +2 to their defenses until the start of your next turn through shielding word

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Battleish Clericish, level 5
Dragonborn, Cleric (Templar)
Build: Battle Cleric
Cleric Option: Battle Cleric's Lore
Dragonborn Racial Power Option: Dragon Breath
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Lightning
Disciplined Soldier (Athletics class skill)
Theme: Guardian
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 21, CON 12, DEX 8, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 15
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 12, DEX 8, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 12
 
 
AC: 22 Fort: 18 Ref: 14 Will: 17
HP: 44 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 12
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +9, Athletics +13, Diplomacy +10, Religion +9
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Bluff +4, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +3, Heal +2, History +5, Insight +4, Intimidate +6, Nature +2, Perception +4, Stealth +1, Streetwise +4, Thievery +1
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Guardian Attack: Guardian's Counter
Dragonborn Racial Power: Dragon Breath
Cleric Utility: Favor of the Gods
Cleric Attack: Punish the Profane
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Cleric Attack 1: Righteous Brand
Cleric Attack 1: Weapon of Divine Protection
Cleric Attack 1: Sundering Might
Cleric Attack 1: Shield of the Gods
Cleric Utility 2: Shield of Faith
Cleric Attack 3: Words Are Not Enough
Cleric Attack 5: Hallowed Advance
 
FEATS
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Power of Skill
Level 2: Battle Healer
Level 4: Shielding Word
 
ITEMS
Ritual Book
Tenser's Floating Disk
Brew Potion
Adventurer's Kit
Javelin
Magic Morningstar +2 x1
Serpentine Scale Armor +1 x1
Bracers of Mighty Striking (heroic tier) x1
Potion of Clarity (level 5)
Potion of Resistance (heroic tier)
Amulet of Psychic Interference +1 x1
====== End ======


Level 8:

level 8 templar Show

Your Dragonbreath is now only targets enemies and grants allies 6 temporary hitpoints when they are in its area of effect.  Your attacks are slightly more accurate and you do an extra point of damage if you charge.  You can remove the slowed, immobilized or restrained conditions once an encounter through Holy Celerity and Strength of Spirit gives your allies an increasing power bonus when attacking the target of the power.  Your Healing Word now heals you 6 points and heals the target surge + 2d6.
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Battleish Clericish, level 8
Dragonborn, Cleric (Templar)
Build: Battle Cleric
Cleric Option: Battle Cleric's Lore
Dragonborn Racial Power Option: Dragon Breath
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Lightning
Disciplined Soldier (Athletics class skill)
Theme: Guardian
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 22, CON 12, DEX 8, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 16
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 12, DEX 8, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 12
 
 
AC: 26 Fort: 22 Ref: 17 Will: 21
HP: 59 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 15
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +11, Athletics +16, Diplomacy +13, Religion +11
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Bluff +8, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +6, Heal +5, History +8, Insight +7, Intimidate +10, Nature +5, Perception +7, Stealth +4, Streetwise +8, Thievery +4
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Guardian Attack: Guardian's Counter
Dragonborn Racial Power: Dragon Breath
Cleric Utility: Favor of the Gods
Cleric Attack: Punish the Profane
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Cleric Attack 1: Righteous Brand
Cleric Attack 1: Weapon of Divine Protection
Cleric Attack 1: Sundering Might
Cleric Attack 1: Shield of the Gods
Cleric Utility 2: Shield of Faith
Cleric Attack 3: Words Are Not Enough
Cleric Attack 5: Hallowed Advance
Cleric Utility 6: Holy Celerity
Cleric Attack 7: Strength of Spirit
 
FEATS
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Power of Skill
Level 2: Battle Healer
Level 4: Shielding Word
Level 6: Breath of Life
Level 8: Two-Handed Weapon Expertise
 
ITEMS
Ritual Book
Tenser's Floating Disk
Brew Potion
Adventurer's Kit
Javelin
Unforgettable Cudgel Morningstar +2 x1
Vitality Scale Armor +2 x1
Healer's Brooch +2 x1
Bracers of Mighty Striking (heroic tier) x1
Acrobat Boots x1
Exceptional Factotum Helm (heroic tier) x1
Viper Belt x1
====== End ======



Where to go from here

For the most part you can keep picking the good cleric simple weapon encounter powers and do fine.  Divine Power is probably your best level 9 choice and either reverent mettle or word of vigor work for level 10.  If you are playing a campaign where dragon marks are allowed, then  Mark of Healing is a good addition since except for holy celerity you don't have anything for condition removal. You should also work on improving your initiative at some point.  For paragon paths something like Paragon of Victory or Tactical Warpriest is a good choice, but since you are dragonborn that also opens up interesting choices like Mithral Arm.
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 7:42AM #163
svendj
Date Joined: Apr 14, 2010
Posts: 2,052
William Wallace, a Human Ardent - *** (third star for being a psionic class)

Most leaders do their thing from a distance. Bards, Shamans, and even Clerics and Warlords work just fine if they never have to enter the fray. Not so with the Ardent; you accompany your allies into melee, leading them by example. Ardents work best if they have a melee-heavy party to work with. If your buddies mostly work from range, you're better off playing a different leader. 
You're a psionic class, which means you get power points instead of encounter powers. You can enhance your at-will powers based on the number of power points you spend when you use them.

Additional reading: Ardent Admiration: An Analysis of Ardent Abilities.

Level 1 Snapshot Show
You've got several things going on that you need to remember. First off, your Mantle: it's a class feature that has an 'always on'-effect and a trigger when you become bloodied. You have the Mantle of Clarity, which has the very useful effect of giving yourself and all allies within 5 squares of you a defense bonus against opportunity attacks equal to your Wisdom modifier. This lets them move more freely around the battlefield. You also grant bonuses to Insight and Perception checks which is always useful. 

You're a Human, which means you not only get an extra feat, but also a third at-will power. This is very important since Ardents have lots of great stuff at level 1. Demoralizing Strike sets up a nova round for the party, Focusing Strike grants saving throws when they most need it, and Ire Strike lets you use the party striker as a beatstick. Be aware that your bonus at-will power can't be augmented. So choose carefully. I'd go with Focusing Strike here, since the augment 2 of that power is least likely to come into play that often. 

Your AC isn't stellar (you only have chainmail proficiency and no shield), so you fight from the second line with a reach weapon. You also invest resources into improving your defenses. 

Lastly, you should know about the power point mechanic. You start each encounter with 3 power points (the third comes from your theme) and you can use them to augment your at-wills. They function like encounter powers for you. 


William Wallace, level 1 Human Ardent
Build: Enlightened Ardent
Ardent Mantle Option: Mantle of Clarity
Human Power Selection Option: Bonus At-Will Power
Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)
Theme: Escaped Thrall

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 14, CHA 18

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 14, CHA 16


AC: 17 Fort: 14 Ref: 12 Will: 16
HP: 30 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 7

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +5, Bluff +9, Diplomacy +9, Insight +7, Intimidate +9

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics –1, Arcana –1, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +1, Heal +2, History –1, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion –1, Stealth –1, Streetwise +4, Thievery –1

POWERS
Escaped Thrall Utility: My Mind Is My Own
Ardent Feature: Ardent Alacrity
Ardent Feature: Ardent Surge
Ardent Attack 1: Focusing Strike
Ardent Attack 1: Demoralizing Strike
Ardent Attack 1: Ire Strike
Ardent Attack 1: Implanted Suggestion

FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Greatspear)
Level 1: Hafted Defense

ITEMS
Greatspear 
Chainmail



Level 5 Snapshot Show
You invest a lot in your defenses at this point. Scale Armor Proficiency gives you an extra point of AC, and an augmented Unsteadying Rebuke will further discourage enemies from attacking you in the future. You have 2 more power points, and your Manifester Greatspear gives you an extra one for when you really need it. 


William Wallace, level 5 Human Ardent
Build: Enlightened Ardent
Ardent Mantle Option: Mantle of Clarity
Human Power Selection Option: Bonus At-Will Power
Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)
Theme: Escaped Thrall

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 15, CHA 19

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 14, CHA 16


AC: 21 Fort: 17 Ref: 15 Will: 19
HP: 51 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 12

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +8, Bluff +11, Diplomacy +11, Insight +9, Intimidate +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Arcana +1, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +4, Heal +4, History +1, Nature +4, Perception +4, Religion +1, Stealth +2, Streetwise +6, Thievery +2

POWERS
Escaped Thrall Utility: My Mind Is My Own
Ardent Feature: Ardent Alacrity
Ardent Feature: Ardent Surge
Ardent Attack 1: Focusing Strike
Ardent Attack 1: Demoralizing Strike
Ardent Attack 1: Ire Strike
Ardent Attack 1: Implanted Suggestion
Ardent Utility 2: Dimension Swap
Ardent Attack 3: Unsteadying Rebuke
Ardent Attack 5: Invitation to Defeat

FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Greatspear)
Level 1: Hafted Defense
Level 2: Spear Expertise
Level 4: Armor Proficiency: Scale

ITEMS


Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) 
Acrobat Boots 
Amulet of Resolution +1 
Manifester Greatspear +2 
Mind Hunter's Scale Armor +1



Level 8 Snapshot Show
You upgrade your attack-granting power from Ire Strike to Mindlink Strike, which works incredibly well when you and a couple of melee buddies are in the thick of battle. The augment 2 especially lets you apply the hurt, and it works even better when you first use an augmented Demoralizing Strike to lower all defenses. 

Your Mantle already makes allies hard to hit with opportunity attacks, but with Evade Attack you can outright negate one every combat. This lets your friends move about even more freely than before.

Being in melee means you will get hurt, and using your second wind is not out of the question. So why not let an ally spend his for free with Winds of Sympathy? 

Lastly, 2 more power points are a welcome addition to your arsenal. 


William Wallace, level 8 Human Ardent
Build: Enlightened Ardent
Ardent Mantle Option: Mantle of Clarity
Human Power Selection Option: Bonus At-Will Power
Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)
Theme: Escaped Thrall

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 16, CHA 20

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 14, CHA 16


AC: 25 Fort: 20 Ref: 18 Will: 25
HP: 67 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 16

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +10, Bluff +14, Diplomacy +14, Insight +12, Intimidate +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Arcana +3, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +6, Heal +7, History +3, Nature +7, Perception +7, Religion +3, Stealth +4, Streetwise +9, Thievery +4

POWERS
Escaped Thrall Utility: My Mind Is My Own
Ardent Feature: Ardent Alacrity
Ardent Feature: Ardent Surge
Ardent Attack 1: Focusing Strike
Ardent Attack 1: Demoralizing Strike
Ardent Attack 1: Implanted Suggestion
Ardent Utility 2: Dimension Swap
Ardent Attack 3: Unsteadying Rebuke
Ardent Attack 5: Invitation to Defeat
Ardent Utility 6: Evade Attack
Ardent Attack 7: Mindlink Strike

FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Greatspear)
Level 1: Hafted Defense
Level 2: Spear Expertise
Level 4: Armor Proficiency: Scale
Level 6: Wind of Sympathy
Level 8: Superior Will

ITEMS
Manifester Greatspear +2 
Mind Hunter's Drakescale Armor +2 
Amulet of Resolution +2 
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) 
Acrobat Boots

 



How to proceed from here

Keep in mind when choosing a paragon path that not all paragon paths give you 2 extra power points. Since 2 power points are the equivalent of an extra augment 2 attack, you need to have a good reason for not picking a psionic path. 

Your feats should go to boosting your defenses (it's very important to get Improved Defenses quickly after reaching level 11), and there are still lots of cool class feats to pick up. 

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 7:56AM #164
Planeswalker817
Date Joined: Dec 17, 2011
Posts: 111
@MwaO - You brought up some good points, though I've removed my build in deference to Mengu's so it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.  The stats I almost certainly would have moved around as you suggested, and I'd probably have noted to go ahead and pick up Battle Awareness at 8 (or sooner) if dragonmarks weren't allowed in the campaign.  As for the powers I think I liked Zathris's suggestion best, picking up Call of Challenge at 6 and retraining Valorous Smite out for something else.  But it's all moot.  ;p

I might try to fill out that Warlock entry.  Probably a Chalock aiming for Evermeet Warlock eventually, since it's a build that's always interested me but I've never gotten a chance to play it.
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 8:04AM #165
svendj
Date Joined: Apr 14, 2010
Posts: 2,052
Thanks for the feedback MwaO. 

Dec 27, 2012 -- 6:33AM, Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:

I think if there are mandatory options at 11th, the build should reflect that so a new player doesn't get completely screwed when they're playing it in game and only then realize what you meant. A build of Str 15, Con 18, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 10 doesn't lose all that much at all, gains +2 Ref/Init at a cost of -1 Will.



I agree. On the other hand, Matyr specifically made this thread to showcase heroic characters. Matyr, what are your thoughts? 

I think Armor Proficiency(Plate) tends to be highly overrated for most characters. Nice if you have it from the start, but +1 AC with penalties to physical skills at the cost of a feat is very costly. Particularly when you have +2 Fort and ignore a lot of ongoing damage or +1 Fort/Ref that will continue to jump into Paragon. Going with the stats, Improved Initiative can be really good here - +10 Initiative is nothing shabby at 8th level, and being able to mark targets before they get to go before the fragile striker gets pounded into mush can really limit Team Monster's options.



Dumping Plate also frees up two ability points that don't have to be put into Strength. Again, on the other hand you will be provoking a lot of opportunity attacks with Lightning Rush. Most of those are against AC, so getting it as high as possible is also important. 

If we lose Plate, we can have a Str 13, Con 18, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 10 stat array, with the freedom of pumping Dex or Wis. This lets us easily meet the 15 Dex prerequistes for Armor Specialization (Scale) and HBO in paragon. But again, should we build it with such longterm goals in mind? 

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 8:44AM #166
Mengu74
Date Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 3,240

Dec 27, 2012 -- 7:42AM, svendj wrote:

Forward-Thinking Cut. There is no better (and more confusing) power in the Ardent's arsenal.


The way this power is written is epic fail. I think using the augment 1 to make two charge attacks falls in the category of using Cleric Multiclass for BCL. While in Charop world this may be okay, it's just argument bait at the table.

Going with Matyr's 5th goal, I'd skip that power and pick something else, MindLink Strike is a pretty good upgrade to Ire Strike, but there are other options too.

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 8:49AM #167
svendj
Date Joined: Apr 14, 2010
Posts: 2,052
No argument from me. But we're in Char Op land, the class is weak enough that most games won't break if you use the power this way, and there is no question this is the way the power works according to the augmentation rules.
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 8:52AM #168
Mengu74
Date Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 3,240
Sorry, I might have been editing while you were posting. In this thread, the goal was to avoid choices that may raise arguments at the table. I know, this is a deviation from the char-op norm, but I feel it's a worthy goal.
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 8:57AM #169
ezrider23
Date Joined: Jan 27, 2009
Posts: 1,090

Dec 27, 2012 -- 8:44AM, Mengu74 wrote:

Dec 27, 2012 -- 7:42AM, svendj wrote:

Forward-Thinking Cut. There is no better (and more confusing) power in the Ardent's arsenal.


The way this power is written is epic fail. I think using the augment 1 to make two charge attacks falls in the category of using Cleric Multiclass for BCL. While in Charop world this may be okay, it's just argument bait at the table.

Going with Matyr's 5th goal, I'd skip that power and pick something else, MindLink Strike is a pretty good upgrade to Ire Strike, but there are other options too.



I guess i'm sorta confused about this power. While a decent power, what makes it so special outside the general charge enabling. Augment 1 gives you a shift 1 then charge and the augment 2 gives two allies free charges against a different target (not the one you just attacked). Granted the second target is eating two charges but that is really party dependant, yes no?

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 9:01AM #170
svendj
Date Joined: Apr 14, 2010
Posts: 2,052
Mengu: agree, but I'll again let Matyr have the final word here.

Ezrider: FTC augment 1 has an Effect that you get to do IN ADDITION to the Attack and Hit. So as written, it's basically a double-attack, with the second attack being a charge. If you either use a reach weapon or Boots of Adept Charging, you can use it to attack the same target twice.
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