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Switch to Forum Live View Hide in Plain Sight: Trying to abuse Hidden condition via Cunning Sneak & Shadow Walk
1 year ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 10:14AM #91
Mand12
Date Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Posts: 17,017
There are four entire attacks.  Each with one target.  Each one is evaluated individually for the purposes of the PP feature.  If you attack four times with HoB, using it as an example, you could have the following results:

1.  Hit!  Yay.  Next.
2.  Miss!  Drat.  Reroll!  Hit!  Yay.  Next.
3.  Hit!  Yay.  Next.
4.  Miss!  Drat.  Reroll!  Miss!  Drat.  Aww, out of attacks.

You don't reroll the entire power if you miss one of the attacks.  You reroll each attack individually if that attack misses all (one) targets.  Bottom line:  melee and ranged attacks cannot have more than one target.  Ever.  Things like Hand of Radiance or even an Escalated Elemental Bolt, despite having multiple targets listed for the power, only ever have one target for the individual attacks that take place within the power.

What you would not reroll is an area burst that had four targets, if you had the same roll results as above.  The two hits would stand, and the two misses would stand.

This is, of course, if you're assuming that the RC didn't break close and area attacks, and didn't invalidate the entirty of mark punishment mechanics.  Some people hold that interpretation.  I don't.

D&D Next = D&D:  Quantum Edition
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1 year ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 10:39AM #92
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,475
Again, how does that reading work with burst powers?

1: Miss, boo
2: Miss, boo
3: Miss, my dice are cursed.

I missed all targets, now i reroll the attack..   which is THE attack?

I guess it has to mean the entire attack.
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my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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1 year ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 10:41AM #93
Mand12
Date Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Posts: 17,017
Yes, because a burst is one attack, no matter how many targets are in it.

It's the same process you use to decide whether the Fighter can smack the bad thing for misbehaving.  If one of the targets of Hand of Radiance is a Fighter and the other two aren't, the Fighter still gets to smack the bad thing.  Whereas if the Fighter is one of the targets of Thunderwave, the bad thing is safe.
D&D Next = D&D:  Quantum Edition
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1 year ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 10:59AM #94
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,475
Ah... I see how your parcing things now.
guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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1 year ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 11:01AM #95
Mand12
Date Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Posts: 17,017
As I said, if you go by the RC alone, there's a strong case to be made that it completely gutted mark punishment mechanics, but it didn't exactly overwrite the old rules, so it's a bit ambiguous.  One of many issues I have with RC.
D&D Next = D&D:  Quantum Edition
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