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Apr 30, 2012 -- 6:30PM, Mand12 wrote:

Apr 30, 2012 -- 5:14PM, Jharii wrote:

Apr 30, 2012 -- 3:01PM, Mand12 wrote:

I have, actually.  Several different systems in addition to 4e.

Such as?  Do you have links to videos?  I certainly would love to see them in action.

Er

What exactly are you expecting to have videos of?  There are tiles we put down, we have tokens and move them, and we set up rolls for various things, and roll them.  It works just the same as it would in 4e, except it's not 4e.

I mean, it's nothing but a fancy set of internet polyhedrals, when you get right down to it.

Videos of the VT in action running a rule set other than 4E...  There are videos on just about everythng, particularly computer-based gaming environments.  I can see videos of Star Wars SAGA in Fantasy Grounds; requesting a link to a video of another rule system in VT is hardly a demanding request.

If you don't have a link, then that's fine.  Acting shocked or put out is rather disingenuous, though.  I am sure you've heard of YouTube and have seen all the diversity it provides.  I was simply asking because I would like to see it in action.

Apr 30, 2012 -- 9:15PM, Mand12 wrote:

My point is that it doesn't look any different.  I'm not put out, I'm just not clear at all what you hope to see.  If you've seen it playing 4e, you've seen what it looks like playing anything.

So if it doesn't look any different, then how do you even know that you're playing something than 4E? How is it different?  If you can even remotely answer those questions, then...
 
It's very clear what I am asking for.  I want to see a system other than 4E being run on the VT.  I want to see how it's played and how the VT supports it.  I want to see what potential work I have to do to prepare a game of Warhammer or Burning Wheel.

May 1, 2012 -- 6:44AM, Mand12 wrote:

How do you know what system any group is playing if all they're using is polyhedrals and a battlemat?  They look the same, from the outside.  Really, what you would see if I were to FRAPS a 1e or 3e session in the VT is quite simple:  tokens moving around on a map, both pcs and monsters.  The built-in math automation is 4e-based, so there are some features that you can't use if you use other systems.  1e can't use the hit/miss automation, so you do it the old-fashioned way - roll a number, compare to AC, see if you hit.  It works in 3e, though, for both AC and touch AC if you use say the 4e Reflex defense in place of touch AC and keep track of things that way.  Every other roll has to be manually entered, such as saving throws.  But that's easy, you just add a new roll, give it a label and define it, e.g. "Will Save:  d20+5"  Then you hit the button, and it will roll a d20, add 5, and show you the result in a line of text that includes the label "Will Save"

It works as well as polyehdrals and a battlemat does, for any system that can make use of polyhedrals and a battlemat.  You don't get the shiny new features of roll automation, but it's no worse than you would get on an actual live table.  I don't know much about Warhammer and less about Burning Wheel, but from what I do remember about Warhammer its non-square-grid-limited AOEs are not going to translate well, as the VT uses a square grid and its area effect tool is limited to filling in those squares.

I'm not clear at all why you're being so aggressive about this.

I am not being aggressive whatsoever.  I am neither attacking you or the VT.  I just want see this system independancy in action.  It's not an overwhelming request.  If it's too difficult for you to answer, let someone else answer it that is not so sensitive about the line of questions.

What you are describing is really not a system independant engine at all.  It's really nothing more than workarounds and there is no way for me to incorporate other game rules into the VT unless they happen to coincide with the functionality already provided.  You see, Fantasy Grounds 2 allows for custom scripting and rule sets.  When someone says "system independant," that is the image that is formed for me: the ability to customize the engine in order to support the game I want to run. 

That is what I was asking to see in action.

But what you describe is the furthest thing from my understanding of something being "system independant."  On the contrary, it is quite dependant.

May 1, 2012 -- 7:13AM, Mand12 wrote:

Yes, that was not clear at all from your earlier statements.  No, you can't program the VT.

My earlier statement was a simple question of which systems were played and where there any videos of them in action.  At that point, you commenced portraying my questions as an attack when you could have simply just answered the questions.

"We played 1E and Cthulu. I am unaware of any videos."

"Thank you, Mand12."

That's how it should have went down.    

May 1, 2012 -- 7:13AM, Mand12 wrote:

Being able to customize the platform is not the same thing as being system independent, though.  You can have system independence without customization, and you can have independence with sufficient customization to get the flashy features you want.  The point is that I can and have played non-4e games on the VT.

By the way, what's the difference between customization and a workaround?

A workaround can involve ignoring what is presented to you (i.e. I will use WILL as Saving Throw vs. Breath Weapon).  Customization is changing the program to cater to your needs (i.e. WILL actually displays Save vs. BW).

Calling the VT "system independent" gives a very strong impression that any system can be run on the VT.  That is not the case at all.

May 1, 2012 -- 7:13AM, Mand12 wrote:

Also, I have a suggestion.  Rather than having someone do the work for you, how about you try it yourself?  You have access to the VT, go test it out and see if it works for you rather than jumping down my throat for trying to be helpful.

Where did I ever ask for someone to do the work for me?  I asked if there were videos already in existence.  You're an intelligent guy.  Certainly you understand the difference and how someone might want to see some videos before diving headlong into something that may or may not be achievable.

Also, no one jumped down your throat.  Please stop trying to play the victim here.  I was asking questions.  Every single one was a perfectly legitimate question that was neither offensive, disrespectful, uncivil, nor an attack.  Stop trying to pick a fight where there is none.

May 1, 2012 -- 8:27AM, Mand12 wrote:

Apr 30, 2012 -- 2:31PM, Jharii wrote:

Apr 30, 2012 -- 7:38AM, Mand12 wrote:

Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:27PM, Jharii wrote:

This particular one looks average to average plus at best and I see nothing that references D&D in any way, shape, or form.  Mentioning a generic term "bloodied" in one of a few videos does not really mean anything.

To be fair, the WotC VT is largely system-independent.  You can play anything you want on it.

Supposedly.  Have you actually played anything other than D&D on it?  Or seen something other than D&D demoed in person or in a video?  I sure haven't.

Because this isn't hostile, at all.  Not only do you just not believe me and dismiss my firsthand experience, you have to add in the sarcastic comment at the end.  You can't see how that might be construed as aggressive?

Not at all.  That's neither hostile nor is it disbelief.  I asked for your personal experience because I had none of my own.  Seriously, you are really looking for things to be offended by, Mand12.

Personally, I don't even know why you interjected to begin with.  No one was even talking about the VT.  I was responding in reaction to the link presented.  You are the one that brought that aspect of it into the conversation.

But...  your initial response is actually inaccurate.  You can't play "anything you want on it."  I guess that perceived disbelief was warranted since it was an untrue statement, even though I never once accused you of or implied that you were lying.