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Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Character Optim.. Machine Gun Breathing - The Dragonbreath Sorcerer
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 7:59PM #11
Feralspirit
Date Joined: Nov 7, 2009
Posts: 347
Hey Matyr, glad to see you giving this another go. It was sad to see how the last thread died. Would love to see variations on  the formula playable from level 1 (or, is 2nd the earliest...?). I had a difficult time our last go trying to make the machine gun work with what I considered an independantly viable build. Do try the warlock Hellish variation, please. Though the power is more clearly worded now, this combo triggers the secondary damage earlier than the item dependant warlock, and the damage just from Hellish Rebuke, when reliably triggered, can be competitive with a twin striking ranger. I'd also like to suggest you include comments for the 1/round viriety of this build, my own DM shot down the 3 times early, and even I felt like it was a bit cheesy. (I generally avoid using Frost weapons, though, for the same reason.)

@ Marshall: Nusemnee's is specifically required for the machine gun effect. I don't see another viable way to recharge the power 3 times per round.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 8:17PM #12
TheMalteseFalchion
Date Joined: Aug 8, 2011
Posts: 737
I like Ninefold Master and Arcane Sword to get Breath as a true at-will.  Of course, it's level 30 and you don't get a stat bump on the ED, but Breath is an at-will power belonging to the Sorcerer class (if you go sorcerer MC'd into Swordmage or hybrid), and that means the Spellfury feats work with it.

Jan 12, 2012 -- 8:31PM, Bargle0 wrote:

This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.



Feb 5, 2012 -- 8:44AM, Illeist wrote:

One reach cheese'd threatening reach Spiked Chain shuts down any non-teleporting quarterback.



May 12, 2013 -- 6:38PM, zelink551 wrote:

You're already refluffing, what not refluff to something that doesn't suck?

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 9:05PM #13
swk3000
Date Joined: Feb 10, 2011
Posts: 314
If this is about a Dragonborn Sorcerer, then why do you have Feats for a Dragonborn Fighter? Sure, you could still MC Fighter, but a Sorcerer isn't likely to have the Strength Mod to make use of Draconic Arrogance.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 9:06PM #14
Mand12
Date Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Posts: 16,948
I suggest you read the Sorcerer entry again.  Pay particular attention to the Dragon Magic spell source.
D&D Next = D&D:  Quantum Edition
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 9:29PM #15
Alcestis
Date Joined: Oct 7, 2009
Posts: 7,894

Apr 25, 2012 -- 9:05PM, swk3000 wrote:

If this is about a Dragonborn Sorcerer, then why do you have Feats for a Dragonborn Fighter? Sure, you could still MC Fighter, but a Sorcerer isn't likely to have the Strength Mod to make use of Draconic Arrogance.


...Not sure if serious...

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 10:08PM #16
zelink551
Date Joined: Feb 26, 2011
Posts: 3,352
Similarly, no Dragonbreath spammer I've ever seen has EVER  used bolstering breath and such. Its just too hard to regen it enough without damaging yourself, daily immediates and APs only go so far.
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The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed

The Bookish Barbarian

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 10:51PM #17
Matyr
Date Joined: Jun 19, 2004
Posts: 2,726

Apr 25, 2012 -- 9:05PM, swk3000 wrote:

If this is about a Dragonborn Sorcerer, then why do you have Feats for a Dragonborn Fighter? Sure, you could still MC Fighter, but a Sorcerer isn't likely to have the Strength Mod to make use of Draconic Arrogance.




The MCs are an important part of the build.  The build I favor goes the MC fighter route for a ton of extra damage that is enemy specific (so it doesn't get redirected to you when you rechage).  Others I list for the sake of a nod in their direction.  I do not, for instance, recommend ever adding poison to your arsenal as a breath option, however listing it and rating it using the standard color system (which is the ultimate goal) makes it show that I am attempting to consider all options.

Also, you go 16/16 with the build, so your Str mod will actually be the same as your Cha mod.


Apr 25, 2012 -- 8:17PM, TheMalteseFalchion wrote:

I like Ninefold Master and Arcane Sword to get Breath as a true at-will.  Of course, it's level 30 and you don't get a stat bump on the ED, but Breath is an at-will power belonging to the Sorcerer class (if you go sorcerer MC'd into Swordmage or hybrid), and that means the Spellfury feats work with it.




I will make a not to this build, like to the others.  However the purpose of this build is to make it effectively at-will using Atonement to recharge most of the time and a select few powers to recharge the rest of the time.  Generally speaking the EDs are going to be Master of Moments and Avatar of Io.  MoM for the extra move and minor on AP (which both turn into breath weapons) and Avatar for obvious reasons.


Not required. You can use Bolstering Breath to make it friendly/buff and find another way to take damage to recharge. Can slow down the rate of fire, but improves targetting and makes you a little survivable.


 

For the purposes of this build, that is required.  Bolstering Breath would make the build not work as is, so I'm going to mark it red.  If you can come up with a reliable way to recharge your breath that does not involve nusemnee's and does not require another player, I will gladly add it as an option.  Until then, it will be Gold for this build. (Especially considering Lightning Soul, OMG Lightning Soul)


?Gifts for the Queen? 

Silver Dragons Regalia can save a few feat slots.


 

I couldn't remember the name of the regalia at the time and the compendium was down.  It will be added to the list.  There are pieces of the Gifts set that you will, however, be wearing as well.  The 2pc from Gifts is very nice, as is the effect of the ring.  Also, not sure what "feat slots" we are saving with those items.  When I build this more thoroughly I will keep a look out for it.

I appreciate any help people want to give, as far as additions on things such as ED options, feats, items and other such interactions.  Having everyone here to remind me of things is incredibly helpful for the idea dump stage.  Once I get the guide up (this weekend most likely) and start rating things, then I will be shifting things to fine tuning things.

Currently working on making a Dex based defender.  Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running?  Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with?  Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing".  You can check that out here
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 10:53PM #18
jonathan_sicari
Date Joined: Sep 1, 2008
Posts: 3,349
I couldn't remember and my search-fu sucks to be honest. My apologies Matyr.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 10:56PM #19
Matyr
Date Joined: Jun 19, 2004
Posts: 2,726

Apr 25, 2012 -- 10:53PM, jonathan_sicari wrote:

I couldn't remember and my search-fu sucks to be honest. My apologies Matyr.



No worries.  I actually considered necroing that thread at first and then discarded that thought.  My understanding of the system, while still limited, is much better than it was back then.  Hopefully I can make a better guide now that I understand more what things should look like, and what standards I should aspire to.

Currently working on making a Dex based defender.  Check it out here
Spoiler: Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running?  Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with?  Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing".  You can check that out here
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 10:58PM #20
ThatWasTotallyNinja
Date Joined: Jan 21, 2011
Posts: 1,091
Hurl Breath and Arcane Reach are both alternatives to using Nusemnee's Atonement (just include yourself in the AoE).

Still doesn't work with Bolstering Breath though. 
I am okay with you saying my argument is stupid, or commits the munchkin fallacy, or any other bad thing you want. Particularly if you give a reason/explanation for it.

However, I will ignore any post that calls me stupid, or a munchkin, or what have you. Not because it bothers me; I've just found that people only start name-calling when that's the best argument they have left.
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Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Character Optim.. Machine Gun Breathing - The Dragonbreath Sorcerer
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