Community

 
Dungeons & Dra.. What's a DM to Do? Prep work and avoiding "rails" (advice needed)
Jump Menu:
Post Reply
Page 2 of 2  •  Prev 1 2
Switch to Forum Live View Prep work and avoiding "rails" (advice needed)
1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 2:03PM #11
iserith
Date Joined: Jun 1, 2005
Posts: 5,202

Apr 23, 2012 -- 11:39AM, Centauri wrote:

That's overstating it. It's okay to let things be "wasted" and often better than trying to shoehorn in things that you worked out. Almost without fail, if I do any prep for a session the bulk of it goes unused, basically because the end up not getting to what I planned for, going a different direction, or asking to do something I hadn't considered and must completely improvise.




I'm okay if some stuff I prepped gets "wasted." Most of my stuff does not, however, because I tailor my sessions to what the players told me they wanted to do at the end of the previous session, the only possible exception being the very first adventure. That being said, a DM who preps as much as I do can feel pressured to shoehorn it in. It's not something I do, but I've seen DMs do it, so I know it exists. It's something to watch out for.

Apr 23, 2012 -- 11:39AM, Centauri wrote:

Without much practice, monsters and skill challenges can be produced almost entirely on the fly.




In my opinion, a prepped 4e encounter with all the bells and whistles will generally have more challenge and impact than an improvised one. I don't hold the view that 4e is good for improvised games. To me, that's like towing a boat behind a Lamborghini - you might be able to do it, but it's not built for that. In 3.X and 4e, I see the set-piece as king.

Apr 23, 2012 -- 11:39AM, Centauri wrote:

It only becomes a railroad when they instead fixate on the weird mayor, or the woods in the opposite direction and the DM does everything in his or her power to get the PCs to the mansion.




I would have started them in the mansion, in the middle of compelling action. If they want to explore the woods next session, no problem, I'll have an awesome adventure ready to run. Next session.

Apr 23, 2012 -- 11:39AM, Centauri wrote:

This is the worrisome mindset, the idea that if the PCs buck the adventure that's laid out for them, even if it was their idea, that they're "jerks." That certainly can be the case, but I don't think it's healthy to go in with the assumption that because you're all friends and all want to have fun, that everyone's just going to "go along" with what the DM planned.




I know if my friends did it, they were doing it to be jerks, because they know I write and prepare specifically for what they want to do. It's part of the social contract of the table - you can have free rein with whatever you want to do, but if you want it to be awesome, tell me at the end of the session what you want to do next session, and I'll prepare that for you, specifically. Veering off that path a bit, coming at the encounter from a different direction, or talking your way through it are all good "solutions" to the scene, but choosing to do something else entirely knowing I've spent a week prepping your game is, frankly, a jerk move.

Apr 23, 2012 -- 1:01PM, Seeker95 wrote:

Although Centauri and iserith seem to be speaking on opposite sides of the argument, I find myself agreeing with both of them. This is easy because both phrase/frame the set-up in such a way that makes it easy to knock it down. (They both use straw man arguments effectively, and I don't consider that to be a bad thing.) Their respective cautionary tales are worth heeding, and I would welcome either of them as my DM and both of them as my players.




Thanks for the feedback. How could I make my argument more effective? (I ask that earnestly.)

No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues.
Reduce DM Prep & Increase Player Engagement: Don't Prep the Plot  |  Structure First, Story Last  |  Collaborative Roleplay  |  "Yes, and..."  |  Prep Tips
Games I'm Running on Roll20: Island of the Frog  |  Vanguard of Dis  |  Star*Juice  |  Tesseract  |  The Crucible  |  Fimbulvetr  |  The Delve  |  Draj, City of the Moon
Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 2:30PM #12
Centauri
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 9,715

Apr 23, 2012 -- 1:45PM, reks wrote:

Thanks for the replies everybody.  Sounds like I just need more experience.  Might have a session today, 8th graders aren't the best at making concrete plans.  Maybe yall could tell me how you plan for your sessions and and how best to react to, "Yes, and..." situations.  Just trying to get a better idea of how it's done and how yall do it.


First I have an overall, general idea of what would happen if the PCs weren't on the scene at all. Maybe everything would be status quo, but if the PCs are troubleshooter types it's because trouble is about to start. This gives me an idea of the kinds of things that can happen around them, and the kinds of encounters it makes sense to have, so I can think about those and maybe even prepare some encounters. For a given encounter, I'll usually print out or bookmark the relevant monsters. I usually work from predesigned maps, or I'll sketch something quickly at the table.

For NPCs, I usually have pretty basic motivations and routes for getting what they want. I might have an accent or mode of speech in mind for them.

The best way to deal with "Yes, and..." situations is to say "Yes" and then take as much time as you need to see how to follow it up. That's the biggest help for me, and has made a huge difference to my game: the ability to say "Okay, let me think about that for a moment." Saying "Yes" commits you - it has happened and now you must deal with it in a way that doesn't counteract your own "Yes." Remember, though, that saying "Yes" to an action doesn't mean it necessarily succeeds. Sometimes the "Yes" is just permission to make the attempt, but set a realistic difficulty. If the task they're asking to accomplish is really too difficult, then you're not obligated to allow it. If they say "I jump to the top of the cliff," you can say "Well, that's not likely to work, but one could certainly try climbing it."

It's a guideline, and something to get into the habit of, because most ideas can be accommodated in a fantasy setting, and players really appreciate their ideas getting some traction. "Yes, and..." doesn't mean the players run roughshod over the DM, but that you work with them to foster their ideas.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 2:55PM #13
iserith
Date Joined: Jun 1, 2005
Posts: 5,202
+1 to everything Centauri just said.

If I were you, I'd run a module first before putting any effort behind the game. Find one that's short and interesting. Run it. Pay attention to what they seem to like and plan to include more of that in your next run. If you're not sure by the end what they liked specifically, ask directly.

For me, "Yes, and..." is either a handwave along the lines of "You do it - tell me what it looked like..." or is an opportunity for me to give them the requirements and ask if they want to still do it. "You can do that, but it'll require an Athletics check, DC 25. Failing by 5 or more might come with some consequences. Worth it?" Just make sure you're not discouraging them - you're just adjudicating fairly and telling them what it will take.
No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues.
Reduce DM Prep & Increase Player Engagement: Don't Prep the Plot  |  Structure First, Story Last  |  Collaborative Roleplay  |  "Yes, and..."  |  Prep Tips
Games I'm Running on Roll20: Island of the Frog  |  Vanguard of Dis  |  Star*Juice  |  Tesseract  |  The Crucible  |  Fimbulvetr  |  The Delve  |  Draj, City of the Moon
Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 4:02PM #14
Grimbus
Date Joined: Nov 3, 2008
Posts: 394
My question is how do you prepare yourself for the next session and not "rail" your players?

Do not worry about rails - especially if it is their first session - railroading can be a positive experience for new players and new DMS alike. The story follows its (almost inevitable) course and the players can focus upon the choices their characters make with regard to use of powers, tactics and weapons. Lay the same "railroad" with ten grounps and you'll get ten different answers.

Originality is overrated in D&D - it is the mind killer. Far too many DMs worry about originality and railroading which results in too few games being run/ Go with what you've got and if you have a bad session the players should be able to give you enough feedback to let you know what to do next.

New players might enjoy railroading as it takes some time to get used to the freeform nature of RPGs  - that usually comes later when they've had some experience and know how things work. 
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 2 of 2  •  Prev 1 2
Jump Menu:
 
Dungeons & Dra.. What's a DM to Do? Prep work and avoiding "rails" (advice needed)
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing