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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 5:31PM
#1
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What were you able to do in past editions that you could not do in 4e?
What made playing a caster fun in previous editions in general?
What made playing a caster boring in 4e?
Please realize these answers will be completely subjective so try to keep edition warring to a minimum. Also don't come in here only saying bad things about Vancian castig, there are enough threads about that.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 6:07PM
#2
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- VCL Emeritus
- The Inquisitor
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Community guy voice - Let's try not to turn this into a bash your least favorite edition's casters thread. Thanks.
My opinion, keeping in mind I do, in fact, play and enjoy all editions - One thing I can't do in 4E that I enjoy about wizards, specifically, in prior editions, is the ability to collect spells. Even if I never cast half of them, I like to collect as many spells as possible in my character's spellbooks.
Quentin Small
WotC Online Community Coordinator
All around helpful simian
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 6:09PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Nov 17, 2003
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Spells have very short durations.
Spells can only be cast once, so no casting a spell for multiple party members.
No open ended spells.
Line of sight requirement prevents things like teleporting into an adjacent room.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 6:26PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2009
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You didn't get fly until like mid paragon level and even then it was pretty nerfed. My immediate houserule in 4e would be the wizard gets all of his utility spells every day. No need to choose.
I think the utility stuff in general was poor. I think damage is the least interesting thing a wizard has ever done. They are the utility belt man.
Sidenote:
I did like the Rogue improvements in 4e. All martial characters should be first class fighting types. One houserule that comes all the way from 2e through 3e is that Rogues get the same BAB as fighters. Believe it or not that does not over power the Rogue at all. The armor and weapon restrictions and fewer feats (in 3e) more than make up for the extra skills.
@lawolf
Even though we often agree I really appreciate your reasoned approach. The point of these boards is constructive discussion and idea generation. I'm sure it makes the devs bored to have to sort through all the flak to find the jewels in the rough.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 6:31PM
#5
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To me, it felt mechanically the same as every other class. There wasn't anything unique about the mechanics to seperate it from every other class with lists of powers. I have made that clear in other threads and that is my main beef. That and not having "spells" per se, as in collecting, memorizing discreet spells.
That being said, this thread is predicted to get out of hand.
"If it's not a conjuration, how did the wizard
con·jure/ˈkänjər/Verb
1. Make (something) appear unexpectedly or seemingly from nowhere as if by magic.
it?" -anon
"Why don't you read fire·ball / fī(-ə)r-ˌbȯl/ and see if you can find the key word con.jure /'kən-ˈju̇r/ anywhere in it."
-Maxperson
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 6:44PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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My opinion, keeping in mind I do, in fact, play and enjoy all editions - One thing I can't do in 4E that I enjoy about wizards, specifically, in prior editions, is the ability to collect spells. Even if I never cast half of them, I like to collect as many spells as possible in my character's spellbooks.
At level 6 my character could have using published materia alone - maybe 100 or so rituals shrug... (not sure the exact number 30 or so are level 6 and some levels have maybe 12 or something like that ), I only have 14 but if collecting was the idea well - I would have tons.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 6:52PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Nov 17, 2003
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At level 6 my character could have... maybe 100 or so rituals shrug... (not sure the exact number 30 or so are level 6 and some levels have maybe 12 or something like that ), I only have 14 but if collecting was the idea well - I would have tons.
What do you not like about casters in 4e that you enjoyed about casters in previous editions?
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 7:02PM
#8
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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They're not brok-*shot*
ANywho, my only real problem with the Wizard in 4e was that rituals were a little too costly to use at lower levels, then practically at-will spells with a long cast time at higher levels once the gold cost was negligible.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 7:03PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2004
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You didn't get fly until like mid paragon level and even then it was pretty nerfed. My immediate houserule in 4e would be the wizard gets all of his utility spells every day. No need to choose.
Just a heads up: there are rituals that open up high-duration flight, one as early as level 4. Being fair, the latter didn't show for about 1 and a half years into the edition, and required access to familiars (which were introduced only half a year before that).
Which brings me to my complaint about 4E: Wizards were too afraid or too greedy to introduce the cool stuff early on. This mostly applies to spellcasters since, well, they were the ones that were in most need of awesome and powerful features to begin with (while, in an ironic reversal, Martial classes were solid from the start and were overcompensated with cool and powerful features as the edition rolled along).
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 7:08PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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You didn't get fly until like mid paragon level and even then it was pretty nerfed. My immediate houserule in 4e would be the wizard gets all of his utility spells every day. No need to choose.
Just a heads up: there are rituals that open up high-duration flight, one as early as level 4. Being fair, the latter didn't show for about 1 and a half years into the edition, and required access to familiars (which were introduced only half a year before that).
A level 4 or 5 flying mount can be reflavored as a broom and given to a level 1 harry potter if the DM really wants to ;p
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