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1 year ago ::
Apr 14, 2012 - 11:31AM
#21
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ITT: People not understanding that the core mechanics intended to fit the high fantasy genre will be utter garbage for anything but that and mechanics generic enough to be used for any will be uninspiring. Its almost like none of you learned the lesson that d20 modern and future taught us about this (that they are widely regarded as the worst systems to use for those genres because the dissonance between the core mechanics which originated from a high fantasy game and the genre tropes of those genres).
D20 Modern was far from perfect, but it's hardly the abortion you describe it as. The fact that the ruleset was originally designed for high fantasy really wasn't an issue in the entire time that I played it. As a matter of fact, the only real issues I ever had with the game were the same issues that I had with D&D 3e. I would posit that the 3e/D20 Modern system wasn't bad at doing a modern setting, rather that the system had problems with both high fantasy and modern action.
Tell me then what other game systems have you played modern or near-modern games in? 99% of the people who don't feel d20 Modern was an abortion of a system have not played a modern or near-modern campaign using any other system. WoD, GURPs, even Shadow Run do a significantly better job handling modern technology, modern weapons, modern character archetypes and vehicles than d20 Modern ever could, even with mountains of house rules.
I don't know if you intended it to come off that way, but I feel like you're asking me to justify my right to my opinion of how D20 Modern runs by demanding a "diploma" of having played various modern or near modern games. I find that rather offensinve. However, since that may not have been your intent:
I have played Nightbane, Ninjas & Superspies, Mystic China, Heroes Unlimited, Rifts, and Robotech. I have played WoD and Vampire. I have played the BtVS and Angel rpgs. I have played the Mechwarrior rpg.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 14, 2012 - 3:24PM
#22
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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ITT: People not understanding that the core mechanics intended to fit the high fantasy genre will be utter garbage for anything but that and mechanics generic enough to be used for any will be uninspiring.
Which "core mechanics", exactly?
You surely can't be referring to the six scores, derived defenses, hit points, armor class, or the skill system, which really have nothing intrinsically 'European Fantasy' about them.
Drop magic from a setting, and all that really happens is a tiny handful of feats become irrelevant and nobody would have drop skill ranks into Spellcraft.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 15, 2012 - 1:09PM
#23
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Considering DnD Next is all about modularity and allowing players and DMs to choose the style of game they wish to play, supporting other genres is a natural progression. Nothing would make me more excited than news that books/modules covering other genres will be available, and that they would work seemlessly with each other and the core rules.
Modern, Future, Post-apocalyptic, Steam-punk etc. etc. etc....the list could be endless.
Chelsea FC - winner of 2012 FA Cup and Champions League
Champions of Europe!
Three Lions
Resident Footie
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1 year ago ::
Apr 15, 2012 - 2:18PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2012
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Considering DnD Next is all about modularity and allowing players and DMs to choose the style of game they wish to play, supporting other genres is a natural progression. Nothing would make me more excited than news that books/modules covering other genres will be available, and that they would work seemlessly with each other and the core rules.
Modern, Future, Post-apocalyptic, Steam-punk etc. etc. etc....the list could be endless.
That sounds nice, but how should they adapt the HP system. A 10th level D&D character can survive a fall from a fairly high building. Modern humans cannot survive such a fall.
So perhaps the fantasy rules of D&D will have to be adapted a bit before they can work in a modern campaign..
DISCLAIMER: I never played 4ed, so I may misunderstand some of the rules.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 15, 2012 - 2:20PM
#25
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Considering DnD Next is all about modularity and allowing players and DMs to choose the style of game they wish to play, supporting other genres is a natural progression. Nothing would make me more excited than news that books/modules covering other genres will be available, and that they would work seemlessly with each other and the core rules.
Modern, Future, Post-apocalyptic, Steam-punk etc. etc. etc....the list could be endless.
That sounds nice, but how should they adapt the HP system. A 10th level D&D character can survive a fall from a fairly high building. Modern humans cannot survive such a fall.
So perhaps the fantasy rules of D&D will have to be adapted a bit before they can work in a modern campaign..
That's not a matter of genre, that's a matter of playstyle. You can have heroic modern games (just look at most action movies) and you can have gritty modern games.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 15, 2012 - 2:24PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2012
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. A 10th level D&D character can survive a fall from a fairly high building. Modern humans cannot survive such a fall. So perhaps the fantasy rules of D&D will have to be adapted a bit before they can work in a modern campaign..
That's not a matter of genre, that's a matter of playstyle. You can have heroic modern games (just look at most action movies) and you can have gritty modern games.
That is a good point.
DISCLAIMER: I never played 4ed, so I may misunderstand some of the rules.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 15, 2012 - 2:24PM
#27
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Considering DnD Next is all about modularity and allowing players and DMs to choose the style of game they wish to play, supporting other genres is a natural progression. Nothing would make me more excited than news that books/modules covering other genres will be available, and that they would work seemlessly with each other and the core rules.
Modern, Future, Post-apocalyptic, Steam-punk etc. etc. etc....the list could be endless.
That sounds nice, but how should they adapt the HP system. A 10th level D&D character can survive a fall from a fairly high building. Modern humans cannot survive such a fall.
So perhaps the fantasy rules of D&D will have to be adapted a bit before they can work in a modern campaign..
Modern humans have survived falls at terminal velocity.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 15, 2012 - 2:26PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2012
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Considering DnD Next is all about modularity and allowing players and DMs to choose the style of game they wish to play, supporting other genres is a natural progression. Nothing would make me more excited than news that books/modules covering other genres will be available, and that they would work seemlessly with each other and the core rules.
Modern, Future, Post-apocalyptic, Steam-punk etc. etc. etc....the list could be endless.
That sounds nice, but how should they adapt the HP system. A 10th level D&D character can survive a fall from a fairly high building. Modern humans cannot survive such a fall.
So perhaps the fantasy rules of D&D will have to be adapted a bit before they can work in a modern campaign..
Modern humans have survived falls at terminal velocity.
But people don't know about it because of the huge conspiracy from the parachute industry.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 16, 2012 - 8:56AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Jan 18, 2006
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I'm glad to see more people are interested in this idea. Hopefully this will get a look from a Dev at some point. So what kind of genres would people be interested in seeing?
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1 year ago ::
Apr 16, 2012 - 9:06AM
#30
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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So what kind of genres would people be interested in seeing?
All of them.
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