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1 year ago ::
Apr 12, 2012 - 1:54PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2012
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I'm a new DM, starting up a Campaign in a couple weeks, and I was glancing through the DMGs, when I found Inherant bonuses, but I wanted to keep Magic items around, but I'd get rid of the enhancement bonuses. So my question is how campaign breaking would this be? Because I can see some problems, when it comes to higher level bonuses. It seems like it could work well at low levels, but once each character is armed to the teeth with magic items that don't give enhancement bonuses, what do I do? I can't give higher level magic items, since that defeats the purpose of inherant bonuses. But If I give anything else, like giving stuff like boons, then my characters begin to power creep up past the power of the on-level Monsters. Or should I count that by the time I run out of magic items to give, I'd have fully engrossed the players, without need to keep them interested, by giving the pavlovian rewards of Magic items? I plan to make magic items much rarer, so characters would get their items over a longer period of time, so I think that may be the case, but I'm afraid I'll wind up in a situation, where my characters will be in a situation, where they get no real reward for their adventures.
Also, I want to know, is there a reason not to decouple the bonuses provided by inherant bonuses from specific levels. Since there are 5 different bonuses (Offence [attack and damage], AC, Will, Fortitude and reflex) to up, and 5 levels to do so. So my plan is that each character could choose 2 inherant bonuses to up at level 2, then one more at each subsequent level, but never such that the catagory with the lowest bonus is anything more than 1 less than the catagory with the highest bonus. This I feel would give each level a sort of Bonus, rather than having one level bump all offence, and one level bump all defence. Is there any real problem with this, that I'm not thinking of?
I am currently raising funds to run for President in 2016. Too many administrations have overlooked the international menace, that is Carmen Sandiego. I shall devote any and all necessary military resources to bring her to justice.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 12, 2012 - 2:38PM
#2
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Fixed enhancement bonuses do not stack with enhancement bonuses from magic items. So, you can keep the bonuses on magic items without any problems. This will help magic items retain some of their uniqueness and usefulness, since (for example) a +2 sword might be better than the party's current fixed bonus. It will also ensure that your players keep looking for new magic items, since that +2 bonus will eventually be overshadowed by the player's inherent bonus.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 12, 2012 - 4:36PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2012
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Fixed enhancement bonuses do not stack with enhancement bonuses from magic items. So, you can keep the bonuses on magic items without any problems. This will help magic items retain some of their uniqueness and usefulness, since (for example) a +2 sword might be better than the party's current fixed bonus. It will also ensure that your players keep looking for new magic items, since that +2 bonus will eventually be overshadowed by the player's inherent bonus.
That's the point. I don't want that. I don't want the players to be forced to "upgrade" their weapons every 5 levels. The problem is that I don't know how to reward characters, after they've got their weapon, their Armor, their Arm slot item, ect
I am currently raising funds to run for President in 2016. Too many administrations have overlooked the international menace, that is Carmen Sandiego. I shall devote any and all necessary military resources to bring her to justice.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 12, 2012 - 5:13PM
#4
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Boons, hirelings, henchmen, original items of your own design, recharging spent daily powers, story/character driven rewards, etc. There's plenty of things to use to reward players that does not involve a shiny new magic item. I've often found that my players take to the little things that affect their character personally better than to the things that affect their character's math. Your milage may vary on this one though, since there are some players driven by wealth and power in the math terms. If you'd rather not hand out new items, decide ahead of time the items the a player really wants, work those in, and simply upgrade them as needed offscreen with levels. Every +1 sword of whatever-it-does need not always be a big deal that it gets it's own 5% cut of in game screentime when you find it. Leave that for the fights where that sword will shine the most to begin with. Happy Gaming
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1 year ago ::
Apr 12, 2012 - 5:21PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2012
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That's actually what I'm shooting for, but it just seems a bit wrong to have the PCs beat the BBEG, recapture the McGuffin, and get less mechanically from it, than when they got a Flaming Longsword at second level.
I am currently raising funds to run for President in 2016. Too many administrations have overlooked the international menace, that is Carmen Sandiego. I shall devote any and all necessary military resources to bring her to justice.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 12, 2012 - 5:34PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2008
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Nothing wrong with working in story awards. Keep inherent bonuses (gets rid of the required upgrades) Then have them quest for specific gear, maybe the fighter wants a Luckblade so he quests for it eventually finds it at the end of a quest and it's a +1 Luckblade. as the story goes on you can drop different story rewards in, one of the good deities helps the party out upgrading each of their gear so the fighter's luckblade gets enhanced to +2.
Talk with your players, let them know the type of campaign it will be, and have them tell you what items their characters want then build minor quests around that. The character playing the wizard wants a new staff? Perhaps the wizard has to hunt down his master who has been missing for 10 years because he knows the master has a staff like the one he wants. The rogue wants some magical boots? Well he knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who heard of a guy who has a pair of those boots and he might be willing to trade for a favor or a price. The ranger gets a vision from a nature deity or a primal spirit showing the way to a mystical bow deep in the forest.
Another approach I've done in the past because I also get tired of the PCs needing to upgrade their equipment every few levels, is ignore the different types of magical equipment. What I mean by that is for example Holy Avenger. There is a Holy Avenger that floats about the multiverse. There's not a +5 Holy Avenger and then also a +6 Holy Avenger. There is just Holy Avenger. The level break downs of an item is what power capabilities a character of that level can unlock. I'll do a couple more examples. There is a set of Exalted Chainmail armor at level 1 it's an ornate set of masterworked chainmail armor, beautifully crafted and gives off a magical aura, but the character's aren't good enough to unlock it's enhancement bonus, (whether or not they can use the power is up to you) but when a character wearing the armor reaches level 5 it resonates with the character's power and grants the wearer the +1 enhancement bonus to AC. When the wearer reaches level 10 it resonates further granting a +2 enhancement bonus and so on and so forth for the description of the item. Usually I let the players use the powers of the equipment regardless of the levels so there is incentive to keep it over something else that may be a little better at lower levels.
This reduces the need to continually grant characters more and more magical items. A level 2 fighter does a quest and finds a flaming longsword. Right now the longsword will do fire damage and the character can use the daily power, but at the moment it does not have any enhancement bonus to attack until the character reaches level 5.
Just something I've one in the past like I said. The inherent bonuses balance out for the items they don't pick up (NADs bonuses and such) and it makes each and every magical item a momentous occasion without making them trivial, but as long as you let them quest for specific items they may want (Mostly for powers and such) then it allows them to continue to customize their characters. Just my 2 cp good luck and happy gaming.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 12, 2012 - 5:41PM
#7
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That's actually what I'm shooting for, but it just seems a bit wrong to have the PCs beat the BBEG, recapture the McGuffin, and get less mechanically from it, than when they got a Flaming Longsword at second level.
That's what Boons are for. They replicate the same type of effects as any other magic item would, don't occupy a magic item slot, and disappear in 5 levels so as to give space for a new boon or other such reward. Boons are probably one of the best alternate reward concepts that 4e has produced.
Rewards need not always be monetary or mathbased though. If you're worried about dropping this concept on your players and hearing a sea of discontent groans, discuss it with them ahead of time and come to an agreement as a group rather than chucking it up to DM control. Maybe they'll even pitch you some ideas as things they would like to acquire or have happen to their characters that don't fall within the realm of common money or gear.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 12, 2012 - 10:26PM
#8
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You could also talk to the players and have their characters motivated by things other than swag. If the character adventures because, say, he wants to protect innocents rather than get rich, the issue of 'rewards' goes away completely.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 13, 2012 - 8:55AM
#9
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That's the point. I don't want that. I don't want the players to be forced to "upgrade" their weapons every 5 levels. The problem is that I don't know how to reward characters, after they've got their weapon, their Armor, their Arm slot item, ect
Ah, then I misunderstood your question! I'm actually interested in this topic for my campaign as well, and the other replies here have been helpful.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 13, 2012 - 1:07PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Mar 15, 2008
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If you're using Inherent bonuses, the PCs don't have to upgrade their weapons every five levels, their Inherent bonus automatically goes up as they level, and when the Inherent bonus exceeds the Ehancement of their weapon/implement/armor/neck items, the Inherent bonus kicks in and raises thier relevant stat automatically.
"Not only are you wrong, but I even created an Excel spreadsheet to show you how wrong you are." --James Wyatt, May 2006
Dilige, et quod vis fac
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