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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 1:45PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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So I've been trying to flesh out a pretador druid that is focused on single-target control via the beastform powers, and I've hit a small snag in the form of accuracy. Both Savage Rend and Grasping Claws are excellent powers, and through some rather stellar feat support can be turned into some brutally effective control powers. Stuff like prone+slow+shift 1 square away or Polearm Momentum as MBA, etc. But I'm running into distressing accuracy problems. I was building a character for level 11, and ended up with a disappointingly low attack bonus when trying to get the Polearm Momentum trick working. Doing so requires an Alfsair Spear, a level 3+ item, which means that I had to go with the level 8 version. Even cheating and giving the level 13 version didn't help much, mostly since I wasn't able to capitalize on an Accurate superior implement using this method. Furthermore, having to go with 18/18/13 as starting stats (13 str for Battle Awareness fighter MC, which is excellent even without Polearm Momentum followup) gives a hit that a 20-wis druid wouldn't have to deal with. The result was: +5 1/2 lvl +5 wis +2 feat +2 enhancement This is a +14 bonus, leading to hitting tofu on a 9. Now that I did the math here actually I realized that the change to Versatile Expertise isn't in the CB yet and I was only getting a +1 feat bonus, which does make things feel better than the 10 that I was getting that was a major red flag. But still, hitting on an 9 is a lot lower accuracy than I'd like for what ideally is an optimized character. It gets worse since Reflex is one of those stats that not too uncommonly is higher than tofu would lead us to believe, and on precisely the sorts of targets that I'd like to go ruin their day. What accuracy-boosting tricks, especially for MBAs if applicable, am I missing here? What else can I add? Most of the tricks for this sort of thing don't actually work for druid MBAs, like Impaling Spear, so what else am I left with? Do I just accept hitting on 8 or 9 (without CA) throughout my career? Leaves a sour taste when other builds are in the 4-6 range... I hate missing
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 1:58PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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I apologize if this is a dumb question, but generally when people are asking about things for their MBA one of the first suggestions is to talk about a charge package. Any particular reason you would not be in any way interested in that?
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 2:01PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Oh, the charge package is definitely on the table, but I don't know of too many ways of boosting accuracy with it that still work with druid MBAs. The inherent +1 and Enraged Boar definitely would help, but it'd be nice not to rely on charging, though, since hitting with my non-MBA powers would be nice as well.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 2:47PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2007
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Oh, the charge package is definitely on the table, but I don't know of too many ways of boosting accuracy with it that still work with druid MBAs. The inherent +1 and Enraged Boar definitely would help, but it'd be nice not to rely on charging, though, since hitting with my non-MBA powers would be nice as well.
I hate to say this, but unless you take a feat that grant easy CA, there isn't much you can do to boost accuracy. That will get you hitting on a 7, which isn't bad for implement classes at paragon. Alfsair spear cuts off superior implements and light blade support.
If you are playing in LFR with fortune cards, take Fatedancer as your theme. Go elf for a reroll.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 3:05PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Well, I'm comparing this to the Psion I also built, which has a +17 to hit vs Will (and pretty much everything is Will) at the same level.
I'm less experienced with paragon op, is the 7-9 range really typical across the board for implement classes? What causes the disparity betwee them and weapon classes, or are they close too?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 3:42PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2007
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Your psion probably started with a 20, sup implement, and has a plus 3 implement, so 17 versus will. Add 1 more if you have a laurel circlet or something similar, such as staff of charm and sleep(or whatever it's called)
Yes, implement classes tend to be in the 7 to 9 range. Dagger users can eke out another 1, as can friendly burst users. If you can generate constant ca,then you can be somewhere in the 4 to 7 range. With an alfsair spear and druid powers, hitting on a 7 to 9 is normal, as most tricks are closed.
Weapon users have more accuracy class features, and enjoy innate advantages, such as plus 3 prof weapons. Better feats.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 3:56PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Yes, the psion is 20 starting int, +3 crystal orb, headband of intellect. That's +4 right there. With some reroll items, too.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 4:14PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2007
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Yeah, comparing an enchanter or cb dagger monk with a normal weapliment user like a polearm druid is probably a shock. It's not always apparent how much ahead of other implement builds in accuracy they can be.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 11, 2012 - 8:34AM
#9
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Polearm Druids are a high-reward build, but yes the lack of an Accurate Implement hurts. Regarding CA, I only rarely don't have it even in Heroic, so it might as well be assumed. Charging does help, but I'll typically only charge maybe once or twice in a fight, and a lot of times that's during mop-up. I used to charge more, but lately I've been playing more high-control and relying more heavily on caster powers for my standard actions, with beast form used more for charge-denial and OA-threatening. Still, if your aim is to hit with a Grasping Claws or Savage Rend attack on your standard action, you might as well charge. Enraged Boar Form and Reckless Charge are what you want here. Take the feat that lets you shift Dex squares when you Wild Shape to make it easier to charge.
I haven't had much of an issue vs. high Reflex enemies personally. As a controller I'm often wary of targeting skirmishers because their attacks that have movement/shifts built-in can screw over many attempts to actually control them; exact tactics vary widely, but I'm often happy letting the defender take those guys on. Brutes and soldiers tend to be less likely "priority targets" for the damage-dealers, so I'll often open up by holding them off (vs. Reflex attacks are really accurate on these guys). If you're forced to attack someone with high Reflex, then you'll get to experience the argument against having all of your eggs in one basket. Druids (and all controllers) need to be adaptable, so make sure you have some good attacks that target Fort or Will.
As a Polearm Druid specifically, you can get a lot of mileage out of Magic Stones. Missing is less of an issue with this power because it easily and flexibly targets 3 creatures. Get between one of the guys that you did prone (because how often are you going to miss on 3 attacks? Oh wait, it's happened to me), and threaten him with an OA if he decides to charge. Things like Battle Awareness, Repel Charge, and Prescient Maneuver (used reactively when an enemy charges) can give you extra attacks (the more you roll, the more you hit!), so load up on these. Finally, this is probably really obvious but be an Elf, Deva, or Human for the racial accuracy, and you might consider a theme like Noble Adept or Harper Agent as well.
My Predators, iirc, tend to hit tofu in the 3-5 range depending on level (i.e. implement enchantment) and whether or not I'm charging. In actual-play I've hit higher level enemies on a 2 (low Reflex), and in the last game I played needed a 13 (stupid Battle Troll...but the Barbarian needed a 15 to hit it, and that was with a +3 proficiency weapon; I can't remember if the discrepency was due to problems getting CA or the relatively lower Reflex compared with AC). Basically I haven't really had many accuracy problems (aside from rolling low, which I have a tendency to do; I can't remember when the last time Elven Accuracy actually worked for me), and my group rarely, if ever, has a leader that regularly buffs accuracy. I also don't run Polearm Druids even if I do have fun with them for TheoryOp, but IMO the payoff when you do hit with such a build (and the ease with which they can generate extra attacks) definitely outweighs the accuracy lost due to not having a superior implement or being "locked into" a lower enchantment item.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 11, 2012 - 9:07AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2006
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One sneaky way to get another point of accuracy is to start as a sentinel but take the feat to trade a daily for natural ally, then the feat to swap natural ally for druid daily and beastform, spring sentinel for +1 to hit with spears and wolf companion for ca. You lose your encounter powers but can still take all beastform at-will and dailies. Alternately if you can slap an energy type on your powers you can get the boost from the elemental feature from HotEC.
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