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Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Character Optim.. Gamechangers: The Powers Every Player Should Know
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 1:01PM #121
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,438

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:46PM, Rancid_Rogue wrote:

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:01PM, mellored wrote:

If your going to assume a prone target stands+attack...  Then grab a tripple headed flail for the swordmage.  The ripose will activate the next turn.  So it's up to 4x damage.

Alternitively...  half-elf ret-venger.  Borrowed confidence need not apply, but you also loose shocking flame.


If you equip your Swordmage with a flail you are of course abandoning any expertise bonus to his implement attacks, Swordmage Warding, etc. There would no longer be even the illusion of having any tricks other than Booming Blade.

If you hybrid, go non-Human, or worst of all both, your feat deficit will be sharply felt all the way into epic.     


You'll need an off-hand impliment for DIS anyways...
So +4 flail, +3 dagger....  hardly perfect (no lightblade expertise), but still funtional.


Also, i didn't say anything about hybrids...  i just said half-elf retvenger.  Dillitante booming blade.  Int is a secondary already.  And painful oath will add more then enough back, as well as the radiant keyword.

To bad i can't squeeze reincarnate champion in there...  still want shocking flame (thunder, lighting, cold, fire, radiant, necrotic  .

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my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 1:03PM #122
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,438

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:38PM, ThatWasTotallyNinja wrote:

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:07PM, alien270 wrote:

Dominate is hands-down the best status effect in the game (unless you count "dead")


Unconscious is pretty darn fun too. But otherwise, yes, I agree.


Dominate is great if you have good MBA people on your team.

guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 1:17PM #123
ohgoditburns
Date Joined: Jun 5, 2009
Posts: 533
Well, this is powers every player should know... not powers that are great in every party. 

Commander's strike also needs good MBAs. 
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 4:21PM #124
Zathris
Date Joined: Nov 6, 2009
Posts: 4,203

Apr 5, 2012 -- 1:03PM, mellored wrote:

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:38PM, ThatWasTotallyNinja wrote:

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:07PM, alien270 wrote:

Dominate is hands-down the best status effect in the game (unless you count "dead")


Unconscious is pretty darn fun too. But otherwise, yes, I agree.


Dominate is great if you have good MBA people on your team.



Dominate is pretty much akin to Flame Spiral, while you will trigger less damage off it (Not an AoE, and statistically, fewer PCs have good MBAs than have Forced Movement) but it's practically guaranteed to deny a turn (dominate immunity doesn't really exist in heroic, or on non-solo's in general) unlike Flame Spiral, where if the creature goes next or your allies cannot assist, isn't killing anything that wasn't almost dead already.

"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating.  Actually, devastating is too light a word.  Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25
Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul;
Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind;
Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire;
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 7:03PM #125
BRJN
Date Joined: Jun 7, 2001
Posts: 1,168
Just barely qualifies, maybe, but the Warlord2 "your friend moves his speed" has saved more than a few friends of my son's character (get bloodied fighter away from invisible you-can't-heal baddy).  Scenario-changing if the right person ends in the right spot (ambushed! - put the Defender in between Team Monster and Team Hero)(give the Wizard line-of-sight to a lurking enemy).

I can't be more specific at the moment because I'm away from HIS books.
Best complements I have yet received:
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Making it up as I go along:
{BRJN}
     If I was writing the Tome of Lore, I would let Auppenser sleep. But I also would have him dream.
     In his dreaming he re-activates the innate powers of (some) mortal minds. Or his dreaming changes the nature of reality - currently very malleable thanks to Spellplague &c. Or whatever really cool flavor text and pseudo-science explanation people react positively to.
{Lord_Karsus}
You know, I like that better than the explanations for the Spellplague.

My plot device: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/ … #489880509 (The reaction is the next post.)

Prepped ahead of time:
I started the thread "1001 Failed Interrogation Results"
{ADHadh}
These are all good and make sense!  I just can't come up with something that's not covered here and is not completely ridiculous.

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Active Characters:
LFR Half-elf StarLock6     Gondolin Nightstar
AoA Dwarf Guardian Druid6     Narvik from House Wavir

Character A-building:
Neverwinter Dwarven Invoker / Heir of Delzoun / worships Silvanus (!)
"Truenamer" - speaks Words of Creation

Concepts I'm kicking around:
"Buggy" Wizard - insect flavor on everything
Halfling Tempest Fighter - just because nobody else is doing it
Shifter Beast-o-phile Druid - for PoL campaign
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 7:14PM #126
zelink551
Date Joined: Feb 26, 2011
Posts: 3,339
Except that Reorient the Axis is ridiculously better?
The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook

The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed

The Bookish Barbarian

Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different

That's right. Rules According to Zelink!

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http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28317541/Barfcheeze_help?pg=1

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 8:03PM #127
Armisael
Date Joined: Sep 17, 2007
Posts: 11,299
Compared to Tactical Orders and Reorient the Axis, Knight's Move is nothing, yes. Its main use is for granting extra Minor actions, not moves. At that, it certainly excels.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 8:03PM #128
RenZhe
Date Joined: Apr 3, 2011
Posts: 972
Reorient the Axis can't make your Rogue take his Low Slash.

Edit: Beaten to it by Armisael! I wouldn't have it any other way.


Knight's Move is a subtly different power that fills a unique niche - action economy assistance for your striker. It's also first in class, being an enabling power that can be gotten several levels ahead of any other powerful enabling powers, which deserves a mention.

Frankly, I'd rather see this guide organized by grouping powers categorically by function, then determining if its 'first in class', as that directly correlates to how good it actually is. Charm Beast and Touch of Command are key powers, for example, because they're first in class as encounter dominates. Silent Malediction is first in class for save-ends-stunning (or really just stunning in general).

Other classes of powers we may identify include "Immediate Retaliation" (Vengeance is Mine, Fox's Cunning, Delban's Deadly Attention, Curtain of Steel) and "Immediate Negation" (Powerful Warning, Disruptive Strike).
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 11:02PM #129
pete5528
Date Joined: Jul 26, 2010
Posts: 374

Apr 5, 2012 -- 4:21PM, Zathris wrote:

Apr 5, 2012 -- 1:03PM, mellored wrote:

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:38PM, ThatWasTotallyNinja wrote:

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:07PM, alien270 wrote:

Dominate is hands-down the best status effect in the game (unless you count "dead")


Unconscious is pretty darn fun too. But otherwise, yes, I agree.


Dominate is great if you have good MBA people on your team.



Dominate is pretty much akin to Flame Spiral, while you will trigger less damage off it (Not an AoE, and statistically, fewer PCs have good MBAs than have Forced Movement) but it's practically guaranteed to deny a turn (dominate immunity doesn't really exist in heroic, or on non-solo's in general) unlike Flame Spiral, where if the creature goes next or your allies cannot assist, isn't killing anything that wasn't almost dead already.




Touch of Command really deserves some more face time in this thread too.  It lacks the miss effect that Charm Beast has, but as a trade off, it's off-turn, which both retains your standard action and can very easily net you two turns of enemy domination.  Your team doesn't have strong MBA's?  Well, if two laps through team PC won't do the trick, just have him run away for two turns.  He'll need two turns of running to get back, at which point he's going to be awful lonley, and may consider turning around and running away again, this time of his own free will.

And it's an encounter power, available at lvl 7.  It's powerful, it will change every encounter it's used in, and it's unique.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 2:57AM #130
Bohrdumb
Date Joined: Mar 31, 2010
Posts: 1,989

Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:03PM, Armisael wrote:

Compared to Tactical Orders and Reorient the Axis, Knight's Move is nothing, yes. Its main use is for granting extra Minor actions, not moves. At that, it certainly excels.




So the consensus is that you can use Knight's Move and downgrade the move to a minor and spend that as your free action?

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