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1 year ago  ::  Apr 21, 2012 - 11:54AM #21
CmdrCorsiken
Date Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Posts: 260
Back to the ranger.  I have alway preferred, thematically, the ranger variants that trade spellcasting for other features.  The two I most like are the ones that grant a series of four feats instead of the four levels of limited spellcasting.

How do those variants impact (if at all) this discussion of a ranger's ability/effectiveness vs a fighter's?
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 21, 2012 - 12:08PM #22
The_Fred
Date Joined: Jan 4, 2012
Posts: 3,081
The Ranger's spellcasting is poor, but remember that it also lets you use items like Wand of CLW.

The no-spells variant from Complete Warrior is the one which springs to my mind. Personally I'm not keen at all on it since you really don't seem to gain a lot. The Fast Movement at L6 is nice but not enough IMO (as above, you could always just cast Longstrider) and I prefer the Unearthed Arcana variant for that (give up combat style, get fast movement and wild shape). Nature's Blassing (L11) is nice, a +4 bonus to Wis, Con or Dex which seems to be untyped, but only lasts for one minute (and is 1/day). Not incredible. A L13 Ranger can already cast Neutralise Poison and Remove Disease, so Healing Touch is even less impressive, though it doesn't mention any limits so I guess it could be infinite uses per day. That's pretty much immunity to disease for the party. Freedom of Movement is even worse, though, since you'd get it one to two levels earlier as a standard Ranger, with the option to memorise something else, and the ability to get more spells at L19+ or from a high (18+) Wis.

If there's another similar variant I don't recall what it is, but generally spellcasting is pretty cool in a lot of ways. As far as the CW variant goes, it seems to give abilities roughly equivalent to a single spell of each level (Longstrider, Bear's/Cat's/Owl's, Neutralise Poison/Remove Disease and Freedom of Movement) without any of the flexibility, ability to use items, ability to share effects with animal companion, or progression at higher levels (or with higher Wis, etc).
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 6:24PM #23
Sanguaness
Date Joined: Feb 3, 2011
Posts: 19

Apr 2, 2012 -- 9:10PM, eyebreaker wrote:

I know this has been discust several times I'm sure?
Which one is better? The fighter gets a ton of feats so he doesn't need the free feats that the ranger gets. But the ranger gets the favored enemies, a couple decent spells, more skill points, & a weak animal companion. Also the ranger prefers light armor while the tank wears the heavy.
Did I miss something? Please explain your reasoning.






Which one is better?

A: I would say a well played/build Ranger is better, but their is always that one guy in the room who swears up and down Fighters are awesome. Reason I say is:

-Ranger still gets full base attack
-6 Skills a level compared to the Fighters 2
-Animal Companion (Your Robin)
-Combat Style (meh)
-Better saves
-Spells starting at 4th level
-Nice variants like th Unearthed Arcana Wildshape variant (which lets you qualify for prestige classes like Master of Manyforms).
-Some abilities like favored enemy, woodland stride that are good when the situation comes up
-Evasion (for the love of god don't take 9 levels in Ranger though).

The only thing you truely miss out on is all those feats and you get d8 hp a level. In my opinion don't amount to much compared to what you gain.


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1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 8:34PM #24
Uknits
Date Joined: Aug 24, 2010
Posts: 2,970
I'm the local fighter fanboy.  I quite enjoy the fighter for the ability to take a bunch of specialized feats and still have room for more.  You can be a dedicated tripper and still have feats for weapon focus/specialization which nets +3 attack and +6 damage by level 12 if you include the PHP 2 feats.  This is as good as rage for attack and damage, but it is constant.  Archery was already mentioned, but the big thing is that very few classes can stand in single combat with a fighter.  I've also found ways to play fighters in long campaigns and not get bored or singled out, it just takes creativity in your solutions.  

As for rangers, I do like them, and I think they get some nice features that are overlooked, like evasion and hide in plain sight.  I also think that favoured enemy can be very usefull if you know you DM's style well.  Also, 2 weapon fighting does have some good uses.  With 2 feats and a pair of sickles, you can trip the heck out of everything, or use a dire flail and disarm like a boss.  Also, with improved shield bash, you can dual wield very effectivley, or dual wield a greatsword and armour spikes.  Also, against a favoured enemy, dual wielding is actually very effective.

Of course, fighters dual wielding works well with the +6 damage they'll have and the feats they can afford to burn to get it, but I digress.  

In the end, The ranger will be very versatile with spells, skills, and combat competancy, but you'll be hard pressed to beat anybody at a single task.  Fighters can specialize and really be good at a couple things, but versatility take creativity.  I'd say neither is really superior.
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