|
1 year ago ::
Apr 02, 2012 - 10:38AM
#21
|
|
|
Are my players overlooting?
Yes, but there's not really an issue with it.
Hell, during kobold hall the cleric took the wyrmpriest his skullmask and wore it himself(had to allow it: DM GUIDE SAYS TO NEVER SAY NO).
That's not what it says. It says to try to use "Yes, and..." instead of "No" to reward players instead of shutting them down.
Why wouldn't you allow the cleric to wear the mask of the wyrmpriest? There are lots of interesting places that could go. Maybe kobolds attack him preferentially for desecrating their sacred item, or maybe they avoid him out of fear and respect for the mask. Maybe they hated the wyrmpriest and revere the person who defeated him (which they believe is the reason the cleric wears the mask.)
I'm afraid that by doing this my players are getting to much money for their lvl's.
But I'm afraid to say no caus the DM guide says to never say no
That's not what the DMG says.
and my players might rebel saying that it's standard RPG logic to loot.
I'm not sure where it's written, but mundane items do not have resale value. Most if not all items that monsters use are mundane items. The wyrmpriest's staff is just a stick.
And what should I do? Say no and go against the DM guide? Allow it?
This is not a case of saying no. You do allow them to loot, if that's what they want. You do allow them to sell the items, if that's what they want. You are not obligated to give them any money for what they've collected, unless the items are magical. Describe it however you like, but basically there's no way for them to turn any kind of profit for mundane items. They're not merchants, they're adventurers. One way to describe it would be to handwave their incidental expenses in town, and allow them to acquire the mundane items they need in exchange for the ones they don't. Pretty soon, all mundane items will cost less that it's worth to track, compared to the wealth the can pull down from adventuring for a little while. This is why characters created at higher levels can have any mundane equipment they want.
I know it says to always say yes but I read it as t never say no: always saying yes to me is the same as always saying no.
And I never said there was a problem with the cleric putting it on. And it was after the encounter before the dragon of kobold hall so there were no kobolds to attack him.
"Into the heart of battle, I shall walk
In the eye of the storm, I will stand
Onto the end of the earth, I shall hunt
In defence of others, I shall fight
For honour and glory, I will live
And for justice, I would die"
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 02, 2012 - 10:49AM
#22
|
Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
|
I know it says to always say yes but I read it as t never say no: always saying yes to me is the same as always saying no.
It doesn't say to "always" say "yes." It advises you to take the position of "Yes, and..." instead of defaulting to "No." "No" is a block and it shuts down creativity. "Yes" by itself is better, but if you don't do anything with it, the players feel like their choices don't matter. "Yes, and..." is the ideal, because you're rewarding the creativity with some kind of consequence. Ideally the consequence is interesting, and not just "what would logically happen," or worse actually a punishment.
And I never said there was a problem with the cleric putting it on. And it was after the encounter before the dragon of kobold hall so there were no kobolds to attack him.
You're missing the point. Those were just examples of the kinds of interesting things that can result from a player choice like that. But even the dragon can have some kind of reaction to the PC's decision to wear the mask. Or people back in town could react to it. Or another wyrmpriest learns of the mask and wants to claim it. These are just examples. Pick something that works for your campaign.
Or, just ignore it. "Yes, and..." is the ideal, but no one can make every player choice matter. But if you default to "Yes" as much as possible, you provide yourself with more opportunities for an interesting "And."
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 03, 2012 - 5:34AM
#23
|
Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
|
The reason for the "always say yes" philosophy is that it rewards players for being creative. I think collecting junk is a nice way to do this. Players might want to do something with it (maybe just humiliate the opponents by taking their stuff away from them after death?), or try to sell it (although I doubt there is a market for used kobold gear).
Point is, this is one f the things this rule exists for. Say yes, but make sure there are consequences for being stupid. They won;t get rich by this, and if they pick up too much they will get weighed down. No problem, other than that it's their own choice.
Note that the PHB tells you that under normal circumstances weight won't be an issue. Players picking up every single item they see does not count towards normal circumstances. Even games like Skyrim and WoW have maximum carrying capacity, and for a reason. If they insist on picking up everything they see make sure there are consequences.
Lastly: maybe it could be nice to actually reward them for their trouble. If they carry around a bunch of kobold weaponry, maybe they could run into a bunch of unarmed gnomes that really need some weapons to defend themselves with. Try to get them thinking outside the box. Reward them for it once, then they will probably focus on something else from there.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 03, 2012 - 7:00AM
#24
|
Date Joined:
Jul 23, 2010
|
I have a deal with my players regarding mundane loot. I ask them not to track mundane, pointless loot like nonmagical weapons and armor, and in return I do not track their rations, nonmagical ammunitions and trivial expenses like tavern lodging. Works well for us.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 03, 2012 - 7:54AM
#25
|
|
|
Another way to go at it might be to ask them what sort of campaign they want to play. You've got a module, so the fights and even the plot of that part of the game are mapped out to some extent (if you decide to stick to the published material, that is,) but the scope of the campaign is still in their hands.
Ask them if they want the campaign to be street level, and the heroes to be regular joes who swing their swords to get by, or if they want the campaign to be heroic, with their characters cast in the part of traveling badass heroes, a breed apart from the people around them.
See, the guy who comes into town caked in blood selling salvaged weapons and armor isn't a hero; he's a mercenary and a scavenger. Some people really get into that kind of game - being on a first name basis with the smith because they supply him with iron, dealing with the local criminal element when they need something exotic, and being chucked in a cell to sober up after spending themselves back into poverty drinking away the memory of the horrible creatures they just barely defeated. Tell them those are the kinds of characters who loot everything in this game, and ask them if that sounds like fun. If they like the sound of it, give it to them. That's what "say 'yes, and" means. If they want to spend some time being the local tough guys the blacksmith calls on to solve his problems, say yes.
If they want to play a game of heroic fantasy, where they're some sort of celebrities who are talked about in hushed voices by the commons and called upon to Save the World, that's a different kind of game, and one you can give them if they'll stop pawning salvage and start dealing with the threat to the realm. Tell them yes, the local blacksmith will pay them good silver for bringing in the kobolds' weapons, or the local lord will pay them good gold for bringing in the head of their leader. Which sort of person do they want to deal with? If it's the lord with his gold, they need to think bigger than salvage. The lord won't buy a bloody head from the blacksmith's salvage team, but he'll handsomely reward the salvation of his people by the heroes of the realm.
If they want the hero package, be as good as your word - the lord rewards them, and the commons revere them. They don't need the blacksmith's silver to pay the inkeeper because they're staying in the lord's keep and dazzling his sons with the tale of how they beat the module. They'll be leaving town with a (modest) purse of gold and a reputation for badassery, and the next time someone needs a really heroic problem solved, they'll be called on.
"When Friday comes, we'll all call rats fish."
D&D Outsider
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 03, 2012 - 8:08AM
#26
|
Date Joined:
May 27, 2010
|
Don't view them wanting to do this as a burden on you, and like other people have said - the idea behind saying "yes... and" is to encourage creativity, and it does tend to create unusual and interesting situations very often...
For instance, I had one player who really liked to collect trophies, for instance - he cut off a frost giant's beard to use as a belt, and took white dragon heads as trophies, he had a bag of holding specifically for his trophies... I generally let him do so with no problems (nature roll to skin the animal or some such - but really no big problems) however, this did lead to interesting situations... for instance, when he collected the white dragon heads, it was from 2 young white dragons they faced at the beginning of a cave. When they reached then end, they found an elder white dragon and the party attempted to negotiate with it, which was going fine until he dumped out his trophy bag in an attempt to impress the dragon, and it saw the dragon heads... it immediately enraged and attacked, and targeted primarily that player the entire time... even going out of it's way to hit him instead of others...
In another situation, he was able to use a trophy he collected to intimidate someone into doing what he wanted, or to impres a tribal leader with his battle prowess...
So no, collecting trophies is not really handled in the rules, and using a bag of holding like that probably wouldn't work, but the end result in this case was that it turned a normal dragon encounter into something with more flavor and interest to the characters....
Look for opportunities like this to use their choices either for or against them (like the above idea of them being able to arm some people with the weapons they gathered)
There are also other ways to go with this, perhaps the local blacksmith doesn't like these heroes coming into town trying to sell off tons of weapons and undermining his business, and sends thugs to deal with it, perhaps he offers to buy the weapons from the heroes at a wholesale rate (allowing you to make it easier to loot as well - just kind of sum up mundane things like stated above; ex. you find 20 swords, 10 suits of armor and 8 shields, they are worth x)
Also - just because the baddies fought with it doesn't make it of the quality that would be sellable... perhaps the kobolds are outfitted with rusty, dented armor, or dull, rusted, bent swords. Bad things don't always have the best gear, so it may actually be worth nothing at all...
(btw - some players may say "if it's rusty or such, why did it do so much damage" this can be easily countered with "imagine how deadly that fight could have been if the kobolds had been well outfitted..." and can even lead to some interesting gameplay situations, perhaps a higher-up bad guy is outfitting the kobolds with better arms and armor and while the soldiers of the area used to be able to stop the hordes of kobolds when they outgeared them, they are now having trouble because of the parity in gear and the disparity in numbers - leading to them hiring the heroes to fix the problem somehow)
"Human beings are almost unique in their ability to learn from the experiences of others, and in their apparent disinclination to do so."
-Douglas Adams
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 03, 2012 - 10:06AM
#27
|
Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2010
|
Another way to go at it might be to ask them what sort of campaign they want to play.
[...]
Ask them if they want the campaign to be street level, and the heroes to be regular joes who swing their swords to get by, or if they want the campaign to be heroic, with their characters cast in the part of traveling badass heroes, a breed apart from the people around them.
[...]
Agree totally with this. Of course they can move from one sort of mentality to the other as they advance in lvl, and to a certain extent this will happen naturally. But whether lvl1 means "ordinary joe" or "lvl1 Hero; capital H" is totally up to the campaign setting and the story you all want to tell. What items are/aren't considered valuable just another part of the overall setting/atmosphere of the game.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 10:26PM
#28
|
Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2009
|
My DM doesn't base carrying capacity on weight; he bases it off what you can realistically carry (barring BoH-type items).
Your carrying capacity might say you can carry 30 swords, but imagine trying to carry that in real life... not gonna happen.
About the interpretation of the DMG saying "never say no:" the DMG also says that everything in there is just a set of guidelines for how to run the game. There are no laws or rules saying what the DM has to do.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 3:25AM
#29
|
Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2009
|
Each of my party members carry a bag of holding (knapsack size) as they like to loot everything (200lbs max weight). Yesterday they searched the remains of two earth elementals  . Another found out the lore on Kruthiks and insisted the party burrow along their tunnels for two (in-game) hours as they believed there would be treasures down there. They didn't think about the miles and miles of tunnels that this would lead to. I let them find a few gems.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 16, 2012 - 5:43PM
#30
|
Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2012
|
I add more saves and RP elements in if the group starts picking up everything, just making certain rolls harder. Not to an extent that it goes beyond nerfing the character, but stealth rolls are harder due to jingling sacks, athletic checks etc. If all they are after is the gold, just count a rough amount and give that instead, as you assume they will sell the trash as soon as they return to a town.
If they start stealing racial or significant items and wearing them, change their diplomacy and roleplay more speech into later encounters, Kobolds may act different if the group are wearing their masks etc.
One thing ive started doing, as my friend is an insta looter, even during combat is just add in more adhoc traps and even make some of the trash loot detrimental to their cause. Perhaps picking up that vial of what was assumed a heal potion, leaks and turns out to be poison, will make them think twice about looting all the trash.
I have a guy who drinks everything, and i mean everything, no matter what the liquid, he will sample it, from water, to blood, to ooze, its a running joke that he will taste it, after a few being pretty bad for him, he now thinks twice about tasting it, but usually still does it anyway.
If looting is a major part of their experience, make it a better experience, or, play it down, and just allow them the cash value, if thats all they want.
|
|
|
