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1 year ago ::
Apr 08, 2012 - 8:59PM
#171
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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Just as a nother note you should do this: Search for Dominated and Stunned in the compendium for levels 1-10. Most abilities that give you one of those conditions easily is going to be amazing. Silent Malediction, for instance, is ridiculously good as it says "This group of enemies no longer gets to play (save ends)".
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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1 year ago ::
Apr 08, 2012 - 11:32PM
#172
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I had no idea that you had contributed three hours ago Matyr. Thank you. I will review your post in the other thread again. Sorry for not seeing this before I had responded. I was pushing off reviewing for a full list like you have given me.
Not certain on the classes the powers belong to. Might have some errors. Please post in the format:
class - power - reason
reviewing:
Warlock - Cursebite - only cursed creatures
Wizard - arc lightning - two attacks vs reflex as at-will
Wizard - unraveling dart - situational arc lightning vs fort
Druid - magic stones - three attacks vs reflex, low damage
Paladin - hand of radiance - magic stones without push
Invoker - divine bolts - two attacks vs reflex as at-will
Cleric - Iron to Glass - reduces enemy melee attacks by 4-10
Bard - Stirring Shout - allies heal by char mod on hits vs target
Bard - Song of Discord - dominate an enemy
Fighter - Glowering Threat - minor action -5 penalty to enemy attacks 1 turn
Fighter - Daring Shot - Minor action burst 1 mark enemies gain con mod + targets hp
Fighter - Sweeping Blow - close burst 1, 1w+mod, bonus half mod to hit
Vengeance is Mine - encounter power, you hit and an ally can hit as free action
Warlord - No Gambit is Wasted - 2w+mod and an ally can retry a power
Warlord - Stand the Fallen - 3w+mod and allies healed surge+mod
Paladin - Heedless Fury - 3w but going to be hit easy 1 turn
Ranger - Jaws of the Wolf - 2(2w+mod) vs ac, half miss
Paladin - Blood of the Mighty - 4w+mod for -5 hp
Ranger - Invigorating Stride - second wind as move action, shift wis mod
Ranger - Attacks on the Run - 2(3W+mod) move as standard if no AoOs
Sorcerer - Lightning Cuts - Encounter minor action 2w lightning vs ref
Warlord - Powerful Warning - ally def boost, they can MBA
Sorcerer - Slaad's Gambit - trig you're hit, teleport before it, 2d10+mod daily
Decree of Khirad - almost dominate close blast 3, consolation damage
Inspired Belligerence - Minor Action - (If Inspiring Pres) - one turn, wrath of god is better
Rain of Blows - beefy magic stones, no push, not an at-will - contested
I went back and forth on it a few times. Might be on best someday soon.
Offhand Strike / Low Slash /Ruffling Sting / Fury's Advance - break it down
Disruptive strike - contested
Also how are you treating things that are good but becomes amazing via a certain class archetype? - case by case
How much damage, what effect, what target, what defense, what action etc.
I will take a look at them. I will find a way to catagorize them. I don't have time to review them now.
clarify these:
Crushing Surge for a battle rager? That power, for a battlerager, is just jaw-droppingly good for an at will given the amount of temps you are stacking on, but for everyone else its just kinda meh.
Other examples:
Adamantine Echo - For Dragon Sorcerors turns your AC into defender or better level defenses.
Staggering Note / Commander's Strike / Direct the Strike - If you have an MBA character in the party this abilties are just silly powerful. The disadvantage of playing a leader is that your damage output isn't going to be great all the time. Why take all those instances of "I do something small and a little damage" and replace them with "I do something small and I'll do striker quality damage through my striker buddy there."
Lamb to the Slaughter - Melee Party becomes meat grinder. Reliable, moves enemy grants movement to allies and gives THREE attacks out to your group.
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Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.
Spoiler:
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1 year ago ::
Apr 08, 2012 - 11:37PM
#173
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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On another thread you stated This: I must have missed the issue .... I review powers often to catch them like that.
I would like to point out briefly what I mean and challenge the word "often". I'm not even sure you are reading the concerns people are bringing up. If you "missed" as many very clear objections as are stated against some of these powers (and this example is NOT an exception to the rule, but rather an example of you not paying attention) you should not be trying to compile things on these forums.
Case in point:
Rhyme of the Blood-Seeking Blade is like Disrupting Shot, only offensive instead of defensive.
In case this isn't clear this is not a vote for it being considered unless Disrupting is an auto-include. According to your list it isn't. This power should not be on the list, especially since you are flat out misreading the power.
And why are half the powers in the "good" category better than half the powers in the "gold" category? And why are half the powers in the "gold" category not gold by any guide? And why are the descriptions of Wrath of the Gods and Rhyme of the Blood-Seeking Blade wrong?
This is not a recent post either addressing the same issue. Rhyme of the Blood-Seeking Blade does not do what you say it does. It does not do what it says in the OP. That power does not function in that manner.
Do you understand optimization, mechanics, and statistics; or are you just making a list of popular powers that everyone talks about as being overpowered or look really good on paper but just fail in practice? Considering you've included Wall of Fire, Visions of Avarice, Rhyme of the Blood-Seeking Blade, and Spitting Cobra Stance, I'm inclined to believe it's the later guiding your reasoning for this list.
To be clear this is also not a vote for Rhyme.
Bard - Rhyme of the Blood-Seeking Blade - target’s penalty to all defenses equals 3 + Wis modifier, no time limit
I didnt read it like that when i looked it up:
Hit: 1[W] + Charisma modifier damage. The target takes a -4 penalty to all defenses against the triggering ally’s attack.
Virtue of Prescience: The target’s penalty to all defenses equals 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
As i read it, the virtue of prescience replaces the -4 with 3+wis mod, but the rest of the text remains the same, ie, it only works agains the triggering ally's attack.
This is the clearest example of the fact that you are not only reading the power incorrectly but HOW you are reading the power incorrectly.
In short if it takes half a dozen people posting individually discussing one of your powers and then another poster making a compilation of all of the other people's complaints in order to MAYBE get a change to your list, you may need a new system for going through these posts and making your list.
Also, in case it wasn't clear: That power does not function like the OP says it does. "That power" being Rhyme of the Blood-Seeking Blade.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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1 year ago ::
Apr 08, 2012 - 11:42PM
#174
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Date Joined:
Mar 12, 2011
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how are you evaluating what makes the cut? there's so many possible metrics that you pretty much have to include 20% of all heroic powers, specify criteria, or be accused of bias.
should feyjump shot be on your list, since it's the only non-terrible heroic tier seeker encounter power?
if yes, it's eating up space and potentially misleading people into thinking it's as good as other powers on the list. if not, then your guide can't be used in any way by someone playing a seeker.
as is, this reads like, "this is a long, unorganized jumble of my favorite powers, in no particular order and with no particular reason."
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 12:01AM
#175
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as is, this reads like, "this is a long, unorganized jumble of my favorite powers, in no particular order and with no particular reason."
This pretty much sums up every "best of" list that has ever, and will ever be compiled on any forum anywhere.
It is entirely dishonest to claim any sort of unbiased reasoning when attempting to rank options in a system of near infinite possible situations without a list of qualifiers as numerous as the items which have been excluded from the list.
Without a firm grasp on either the game rules or the meta-game, it is a task the OP is entirely incapable of; that he persists in the role of final arbitrator demonstrates that he is entirely unaware of his deficiencies, as the song goes, arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand. Sadly this is a common occurrence, it is akin to the idiom of the big fish in the small pond, it becomes so accustomed to being the big fish that even when it travels to the ocean and is confronted by a host of larger predators, it makes the mistake of not realizing that it is now quite small indeed.
It would be best for the community to ignore this small fish, though full of sound and fury, he is contributing nothing. The sooner these threads fall to the unviewed pages, like detritus in the wake of a boat, the better.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 1:05AM
#176
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updated to post #172 Reviewed 20 some powers. Use proper formatting. example: suggestion for demotion: Bard - Rhyme of the Blood-Seeking Blade - hinders only one target when power x hinders more the same way I saw Matyr was concerned about me missing things. Please use the formating specified to help. I have not read your post yet though Matyr. Only glanced at things after 172 yet.
Spoiler:
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Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.
Spoiler:
Show
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 2:22AM
#177
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Updated to #172 means I have not reviewed or updated anything after.
I am updating the formatting.
Format for suggestions:
promotion or demotion
class - power - reason
person who originally suggested the power
The last part is to prove that you took the time to read the thread, or at least part of it.
I am ignoring posts that do not follow the format here forward. The people who backed a power are no where to be seen when someone else challenges it, and I am not going to get stuck holding the bag alone any longer.
Spoiler:
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Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.
Spoiler:
Show
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 3:11AM
#178
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I've removed content from this thread because baiting/trolling is a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 3:42AM
#179
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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This is Baja's list of the best powers for heroic tier.
Ardent - Mindlink Strike - 2 augments - close burst 1 ~2w and one 1w
Cleric - Moment of Glory - knock an enemy away and down and sustain resist 5 for all party members
Druid - Grasping Tide - at-will, burst 1 in 10 vs fort, d6+mod, restrict enemy movement or prone
Druid - Grasping Claws - because this
Fighter - Come and Get it - close burst 3, brings enemies to you for 1w damage
Fighter - Thicket of Blades - 3w damage close burst 1
Fighter - Rain of Steel - spend one minor to deal 1w to any enemy starting near you during the encounter
Paladin - Astral Thunder - Close burst 3, 2d8 and attack penalties, as an encounter
Paladin - Wrath of the Gods - Close burst 1 utility minor action, buffs damage by charisma mod for encounter
Ranger - Twin Strike - two attack at-will, ranged or melee
Ranger - Spitting Cobra Stance - 1w any enemy that moved toward you
Rogue - Knockout - knock enemy unconscious
Rogue - Gloaming Cut - at-will 1w + sneak attack while hiding continuously
Swordmage - Sword Burst - close burst at-will vs reflex
Wizard - Sleep - knock enemies unconscious
Wizard - Instant Friends - make your enemies cooperate
Wizard - Summon Succubus - debuff enemies, dominate enemies, fly
Wizard - Visions of Avarice - burst 5 in 10 trap your enemy in a zone sustain minor
Warlock - Hellsworn Blessing - give an ally 2d8 extra damage
Warlock - Decree of Khirad - almost dominate close blast 3, consolation damage
Warlord - No Gambit is Wasted - 2w+mod and an ally can retry a power
Warlord - Stand the Fallen - 3w+mod and allies healed surge+mod
The list is updated regularly based on reasons for and against powers.
I made the list for fun so keep this thread fun.
Format for suggestions:
promotion or demotion
class - power - reason
person who originally suggested the power
The last part is to prove that you took the time to read the thread, or at least part of it.
promotion
Wizard - Magic Missile - Never misses
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 4:12AM
#180
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reviewed: Rain of Blows Magic Missile Crushing SurgeLamb to the Slaughter
Adamantine Echo This was brought to my attention by Matyr via pm regarding TOB vs Rain of Blows: And what about the person who mathematically proved you wrong when you said that exact thing?
Its a pretty easy proof too.
Say you are doing a d10 + Stat with your primary stat being 6 at the end of heroic
3[w]+ stat (6) + Iron Armbands (2) + Enhancement (3) = 3d10+11 ~16.5+11 or 27.5 average damage.
3* [1[w] + Iron Armbands (2) = Enhancement (3)] = 3* [1d10 + 5] ~ 3* [5.5 + 5] = 31.5 average damage.
That isn't even taking into account a whole myriad of other bonuses you can get to attack and damage rolls, or using a smaller weapon (where the difference becomes even bigger) or taking into account the increased chance to crit (which matters more than the chance to miss). It also doesn't take into account the "all or nothing" factor of the 3[W] attack not allowing you to get temporary bonuses for a turn.
The proof given before was much more in-depth and used a lot more pluses, but just a normal weapon and a normal arm item pushes it over the edge.
3 small attacks is almost always better than one big one.
For clarity, TOB is an AOE. So it is 27.5 average damage per target.
The original post some of that was taken from was regarding one 3w verses 3(1w) and is appreciated in that form from kilpatds, who is an excellent contributor everywhere I see his posts I want to add.
I don't want anyone to have his post mixed up with how much damage TOB does.
Most fighters who use TOB also have Come and Get It. So they can pull enemies close easily, action point, and pop TOB.
Between Rain of Steel, Come and Get It, and an ally who had Hellsworn Blessing I was able to deal way over 400 damage with my fighter, who is designed to be a defender. I didn't have TOB yet. Though the way Hellsworn Blessing works was errata'd to exclude it from Rain of Steel.
The theory is awesome to tinker with. Before errata 1 round was asymtotically maxed:
rain of steel 8*d12+8*2d8
CGI 8*d12+8*2d8
TOB 8*3*d12+8*2d8
864 possible + statics
If you use a shield and d8 weapon, you lose 128 damage.
I haven't heard of any way to extend the range of the bursts.
Though I suspect there is some really great multiclassing shenanigans to be had.
Now if only I could convince one of my groups to role two fighters and two warlocks.....
Spoiler:
Show
Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.
Spoiler:
Show
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