Community

Having read the recent Eye on Eberron article (www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/d...), I am curious, how do you deal with subtle villains in your campaign? Personally I always have problems representing highly intelligent subtle villains in a for me believable way and still give the PCs a sense of victory. Run correctly, how would the PCs ever realize the so-called good organization is evil without that organization making a silly mistake, especially since most PCs are not sublte/astute themselves and the quori have plans spanning decades not the the months that involve the typical D&D campaign? I could use NPCs of course, but how would you prevent this feeling like the DM telling the PCs what to do?

What does Valenar want? As in, Droam wants recognition as a real country, Darguul wants to remake the Dhakaan Empire, Aundair wants to remake Galifar, Thrane wants to spread the faith, Jaela wants a pony... Why did Vadallia need or want to create his own country? Is he trying to one up his ancestors who conquered Aerenal by eventually conquering Khorvaire? Some sort of disagreement with the elves across the pond? I realize the Valaes Tairn are tribal, and operate on a warband as opposed to a warclan level, but there has to be more to the Darkwood Crown then just setting up a base of operations so his followers have someplace to go after they raid and annoy his neighbors. I hope.

And why is Lyrander putting in so much rescources in having a secondary, or soon to be main base of operations in Valenar? No one like them, it'd be like Apple opening up a new campus in North Korea. "Yeah, the facilities great, but there's a good chance the locals might kill you before you get there."

Jun 24, 2012 -- 2:32PM, Mutedfaithe wrote:

What does Valenar want?

I'm puzzled, because I'd swear I've written about this in a canon source, but I'm having trouble finding it. You may also want to check the comments of the current Q&A post on my website, as it discusses Valenar a bit.

You can of course come up with any answer you like to this question. However, mine is simple. The Valenar want to face the same sort of challenge as that faced by their ancestors. Mercenary work isn't that. Kingdom building isn't that. Their ancestors fought a guerilla war against a superior foe. They survived through skill, cunning, and knowledge of the land. This is what the Valenar want. They don't want to invade another nation; that's not what their ancestors did. They have spent decades learning about the territory they have claimed, learning its twists, learning to live off of it, considering ambush points, setting magical traps. They have no interest in Valenar as a long-term investment; for them it is a killing field waiting to happen. Everything Vadallia has done - from seizing the territory from Cyre in the first place, to allowing the raiding - is geared towards provoking someone into attacking THEM. They want a superior foe to challenge them on their home ground. On this note, bear in mind that almost all of the civilian population of the Valaes Tairn - children, horse-breeders, and so on - live on Aerenal. Valenar isn't a home to them; it's a battlefield waiting to happen. This is why they're perfectly happy to let Lyrandar do what they want with it - long term, the elves aren't interested in ruling a kingdom.

This may make them sound incredibly callous - they are slaughtering halflings as part of some big game? First, as noted in the Q&A discussion, they generally don't massacre people on their raids in the Talenta Plains or Q'barra. They aren't out for blood, and it doesn't help their cause. The point of raiding a Q'barran village is to have villagers terrified of them, demanding that something be done and thus causing attention to their actions. If the villagers are all dead or the village is razed, a) dead villagers tell no tales and b) there isn't a village to raid next week. Damage will be done and people may die - but that's not their goal in an attack, and they definitely don't want to hurt a target so badly that it can't recover and be around later. In the case of the halflings, perhaps if they fight enough times the halflings will gow seasoned from the experience and become worthy foes; again, slaughtering them accomplishes nothing.

However, beyond this we get to the important part: the why. WHY do the Tairnadal fight at all? It's not for glory or honor; these are secondary and only apply to certain ancestors. They fight because it is their religious duty to fight - because by acting as their ancestors would in their place, they believe that they are keeping the ancestors alive. It's a blend of the kalashtar (spirit preserved by being connected to mortal hosts) and deathless (entity preserved by reverence of descendants). The Tairnadal believe that the spirits of their heroic ancestors are anchored to those they have chosen, and remain anchored so long as the chosen emulate them. This is where you can get conflicts when an elf is chosen by a patron ancestor whose behavior he doesn't particularly like; it is still his religious duty to embody that specific ancestor, because they cannot allow those heroes to be lost.

Jun 24, 2012 -- 2:32PM, Mutedfaithe wrote:

And why is Lyrander putting in so much rescources in having a secondary, or soon to be main base of operations in Valenar? No one like them, it'd be like Apple opening up a new campus in North Korea. "Yeah, the facilities great, but there's a good chance the locals might kill you before you get there."

I'm not sure I understand the question. What do you mean by "No one likes them"? Have you read The People of Taer Valaestas ? It mentions the Lyrandar viceroy sitting at the right hand of the High King. There is a segment of the human population that dislikes the Khoravar as a whole, but most of their hostility is channelled against the thrones ("thrones" from Thronehold, a derogatory term for the people of the Five Nations). More important are the population numbers: Khoravar make up over a third of the population of the city! And hold most of the high level jobs. Setting aside its mercantile goals, Lyrandar sees Vaenar as an opportunity for Lyrandar to create a nation for its race. All the elves care about is fighting. If the Five Nations want to challenge Lyrandar for breaking the Korth Edicts, they'll have to go through the Valenar... Which the Valenar would LOVE. Stormhome is great, but at the end of the day it's in Aundair and closely watched. Valenar is an opportunity for Lyrandar to create a new kingdom.

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the insight! I always enjoy reading your thoughts.

And what I meant by "no one likes them" is that the nation of Valenar is seen by many of the other nations as an unstable region ruled by a warlike people with, apparently, a kind of collective deathwish. They don't really want their nation to die, of course, but they are actively trying to piss off a strong army  to fight with, and that would make me worry for the nation's future and Lyrander's place in it. Of course, when your surrounded by the most elite army on the continent, maybe that's not really a worry. And sometimes making a new nation for the Khoravar means taking risks. 

I read al the expedition dispatches and  the dragonshards to try and make sure I'm not reasking you questions you've already answered. And the Tairndal love story that goes into patron ancestors.

What is the government of Tairndal like? The Tairndal have their own relationship with the Undying court, but do they serve the Undying Court or have their own seperate government in Aerenal? And what does this government (either Undying Court or Tairndal king) think of Vadallia declaring himself King of Valenar? Is he still a vassal of whoevers in charge in Aerenal? Or since they are not that interested in actually being a nation, is Vadallia declaring himself king more like declaring he's Supreme War Leader of the Tairndal forces in Khorvaire?

Man, I love the Eberron forum!

One question (and apologies if this has been answered elsewhere), what motivations would an elf from a Valenar war-clan have to join a standard party of (non-Valenar) adventurers?  Would he consider it a form of training, maybe gathering information and resources to help the war effort (when war is declared)?