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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 9:38AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Dec 20, 2004
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Dragon's-Eye ViewAppropriate Armorby Jon SchindehetteWhat is appropriate armor? Senior creative director Jon Schindehette answers that question, plus hopefully gives you a few things to think about along the way.Talk about this article here.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 12:02PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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It's an insightful start, but that's all that it is, a start. If every depicted female warrior starts coming from cultures that wear chainmail bikinis while every depicted mail warrior starts coming from cultures that wear fullplate armor, then it doesn't matter how "culturally appropriate" you think each character it being depicted, because there's still a problem with how everybody's being depicted as a whole. Additionally, I'll post here the comment that I made to the article itself: In other words, a male knight in full battle dress, wading through the desert sands, is just about as silly as a female fighter, in a chainmail bikini, forging through the frozen wastes of the Iceland Dale.
This is false. Those things are not exactly as silly. The latter is sexually objectifying and degrading, and it is that way on purpose. The former is simply inappropriate, possibly even intended to be comedic. I very much appreciate the effort, Jon, but you're still missing the point, and you need to look deeper than you're looking. You cannot divorce D&D from our real-world culture, as you have so expertly pointed out yourself, so you cannot divorce "chainmail bikinis" from real-world issues of sexism and objectification of women simply by comparing it to another scenario that may be equally illogical but that does not carry nearly the same cultural baggage.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 12:11PM
#3
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the one main thing with female armor or attire that some people mistake for amor( ie Red Sonya's scale mail bkini slave girl garb) is that they fail to mention that no one fighter is just going to stand there and let you just hit them while they try to hit you.
As Drizzt has said Tiresome dance. It really is a dance and there are tactics and skills for dealling with an unarmored warrior against an armored opponent.
so in that regard.... the exagorated fantansy and the stylized fantasy outfits would function in a fight. you might not last long... but thats not the point.
all that said.
I dont mind flesh revealling armor tank top and short styled armor( elmore has one on his site) is not bad to me, but Red Sonya's armor only looks good on Red Sonya. So id be in the decent middle ground of it all...
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 12:14PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Dec 12, 2011
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I love the above art. Very evocative. I would love to see more schetches like this.
I also think that it's necesary to look at armor, weapon and clothing designs from a cultural and environmental standpoint and make them appropriate for such. I look forward to seeing how this plays out in the art for 5e.
Playtest or get off the playtest boards.
---
I want justice for the voice that can't be heard
Vindication for every suffering and hurt
Let retribution hold dominion over earth
--Nemesis, VNV Nation
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 12:50PM
#5
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Meh. Let the artist draw what he's in the mood for.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 1:57PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2008
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We are pretty much using all types of armors in our campaigns... Whatever the character feels like wearing is ok.
The only time anyone ever bothers from a mechanical standpoint is pretty much in extreme heat/cold... But that's very seldom and we usually don't put characters in those situations unless they can fix it with a warm cloak or if the PCs can fix it with endure elements.
I want to see a diverse set of clothes/armor in the books ranging from dresses such as the manga character to naughty leather such as the fantastic realism character to realistic armor such as the photorealism character.
When it comes to character inspiration I usually look through the entire web anyways for cool armors/clothes. Whatever happens in the core books I will survive... Art is nice in the books, but I dont live and die by it.
If you ask me which I like to look at most... I could tell you it was the realistic art... but that would be a lie... Monkeyman inside prefers bikini armors... but monkeyman's decisions is usually bad from a get-more-girls-into-the-game point of view... so I'll survive even if the book contains just the realistic art.
In the end... maybe for once I agree upon something with Salla :D... Let the artist draw what he feels like and it will probably be better than if someone is dictating everything.
The Character Initiative
Show
Every time you abuse the system you enforce limitations.
Every time the system is limited we lose options.
Breaking an RPG is like cheating in a computer game.
As a DM you are the punkbuster of your table.
Dare to say no to abusers.
Make players build characters, not characters out of builds.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 3:37PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2005
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Sexy vs sexism is a tough line to walk. For all the talk of inappropriate chainmail bikinis, it often seems like the opinion of what real, modern women think of fantasy attire isn't always taken into account. Does a woman coming to DnD for the first time want her character to wear the same platemail as a man or does she want to be more "sexy" and wear something like a fantasy version of an outfit out of Cosmo?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 3:42PM
#8
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Meh. Let the artist draw what he's in the mood for.
That's not how art commissioning works, and it's also not how to overcome sexism.
Z.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 3:47PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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Meh. Let the artist draw what he's in the mood for.
That's not how art commissioning works, and it's also not how to overcome sexism.
+1 and +1
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 3:54PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2008
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While others crusade for more armor on women, can I crusade for less armor on men?
Bracers and armor rings all the way. That way, everyone can be nearly naked and still fight.
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