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1 year ago ::
Mar 26, 2012 - 11:12AM
#51
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Absolutly nothing in the 4E books forces you or even SUGGESTS you railroad the characters,
If it doesn't, it should. There can be too much railroading just as there can be too much of a good thing. But when going left leads to a dozen encounters and the DM knowing what to do in all cases while going right leads to a blank piece of paper the DM must fill on the fly, any decent DM should be doing anything short of hogtieing the players to make them go left.
The DM doesn't want to be blatent about it, and ultimately the DM is trying to railroad the party in the direction it wants to go. But if your game is going to be anything beyond a series of random enounters, you had better be ready to railroad.
Now as to whether 4e or 3.5 is more railroady, I would submit the difference is trivial. The reasons for railroading lie outside the mechanics.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 26, 2012 - 11:12AM
#52
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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if i want to play a game of heroic fantasy, D&D has always been the go-to.
Always? Also in the times when a (un)lucky roll from a level 1 goblin could slay a PC? So then there should be no problem with going back to that default, or is there?
The fact that old D&D editions were not good at doing what they should have been doing is the reason we have improved during the years up to the wonderful 4th edition. :P
Are you interested in an online 4E game on Sunday? Contact me with a PM! Spoiler:
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Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Ideas for 5ESpoiler:
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1 year ago ::
Mar 27, 2012 - 3:36AM
#53
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2004
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it's like you didn't read the post i quoted where someone was stupid, i just wrapped my counter-stupid in insulting more people that aren't here
First, not a good idea to pretty much admit to a violation of the Code of Conduct. But, whatever. I re-read the post that you quoted from, and....what you quoted was all of what Salla said.
So please. Lay out what was stupid about wanting D&D to evolve. Tell us what was prompted you to call 4e a, "storytime railroad gaia online RP thread".
....and actually come think about it, feel free to explain exactly what that means, since I'm only seeing contradicting accusations in "storytime" and "railroad". I'll ignore the "4e is an MMO" aspersion because your statement has enough problems.
Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade." "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, "But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling Defenders: We ARE the wall! I've replaced the previous Edition Warring line in my sig with this one, because honestly, everybody needs to work together to make the D&D they like without trampling on somebody else's D&D. Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e! I am a hero, not a chump.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 27, 2012 - 4:36AM
#54
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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@XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek
I don't disagree with your definitions but keep in mind that no one playing D&D wants a completely cinematic experience. They do roll dice.
The question is ask is this --> How strong is the DM script with the characters.
The adventures need to be based around the goals of the characters... ie scripted by both the player and the DM, an in the sense that they target there motivations and use the characters backgrounds etc... I have always hated modules for their genericness.
Does the DM create a world and then turn his players loose live or die as the dice fall. Or does the DM plan on the group becoming might heroes and plan his campaign accordingly. This is a continuum to be honest and is not a yes or no question. Everyone has degrees of cinematicness it is just how much.
Characters die in cinema all the time the protagonists tend to not die in anticlimactic minor skirmishes, or really early in the story but they do still fail in a variety of ways including dying.
If your genre is a horror flick the deaths are sudden unexpected and do not accompany real reasons like a fluke... they are intended to shock and instill discomfort in the audience... That is not the goal in most heroic fantasy fiction.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 27, 2012 - 4:40AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Some of us would rather see D&D evolve
Some of us wouldn't.
Then you can play the un evolved old game that exists free in an SRD right?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 27, 2012 - 5:03AM
#56
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Date Joined:
Nov 13, 2011
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if i want to play a game of heroic fantasy, D&D has always been the go-to.
Always? Also in the times when a (un)lucky roll from a level 1 goblin could slay a PC? So then there should be no problem with going back to that default, or is there?
unfortunately, yes. but then again, my options for heroic fantasy RPing were limited way back when. i guess we could have played RIFTS or palladium or something, but i don't think we knew RIFTS or Palladium were actually a thing way back when.
D&D has changed, and over the years, from my into in 2nd ed up to 4th ed, has evolved to be better suited to the style of fantasy we cared for.
we wanted Legend of Zeda, Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, Gauntet... no numerals. the originals. i guess you could say what we got was "Farmer with a pitchfok" but we made due back then.
thankfully, i am now an adult with options and money, and "making due" is one i simply don't care for.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 27, 2012 - 7:57PM
#57
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2009
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The "scripted" game was never a default assumption of D&D, ever. So I guess that we won't see it in the future... Maybe you mean Vampire? Then we can talk...
Anyway, it's not important how much tha PCs/Protagonists will win or will lose, the important thing is that the game must move, that is what cinematic means in a nutshell. If the story grinds to an halt every 15 minute because everybody is dead again or whatever, the game becomes quickly boring for the majority of people.
Maybe somebody like it, but it's a really small niche.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 6:52PM
#58
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Date Joined:
Jul 13, 2011
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it's like you didn't read the post i quoted where someone was stupid, i just wrapped my counter-stupid in insulting more people that aren't here
First, not a good idea to pretty much admit to a violation of the Code of Conduct. But, whatever. I re-read the post that you quoted from, and....what you quoted was all of what Salla said.
So please. Lay out what was stupid about wanting D&D to evolve. Tell us what was prompted you to call 4e a, "storytime railroad gaia online RP thread".
....and actually come think about it, feel free to explain exactly what that means, since I'm only seeing contradicting accusations in "storytime" and "railroad". I'll ignore the "4e is an MMO" aspersion because your statement has enough problems.
the gaia online thing is really a maturity thing it's not an mmo it's like this terrible cesspool community thing
the stupid is calling a game designed exploration stagnant. if it's stagnant then you're just not being given intersting enough places to explore. the rules of the game are less important than the places you go.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 7:30PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2012
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First, not a good idea to pretty much admit to a violation of the Code of Conduct.
That's what we call irony. Also, hilarity.
For those confused on how DDN's modular rules might work, this may provide some insight: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/11/the-world-of-darkness-shines-when-it-abandons-canon
@mikemearls: Uhhh... do you really not see all the 3e/4e that's basically the entire core system?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 29, 2012 - 6:52AM
#60
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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i disagee.
i want the cinematic style to be the assumed default. you can have your style, but you'll be the one to have to make it work use a module.
I don't want 5ed to have an assumed default at all. I would like it to be 100% modular. Let them provide 10 modules with 10 different play styles and everyone can pick the one they want to use for their group.
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