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1 year ago ::
Mar 21, 2012 - 11:36PM
#51
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Date Joined:
Feb 16, 2012
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to be honest, In AD&D, you used to get Experience Points for making magic items. The Process was simply that difficult. It typically cost constitution, several hundred pounds of gold, and months of questing.
in later editions, they started not awarding, but charging Experience points for making them. Put those two side by side and you have pure inversion, pure insanity, cats and dogs living together, the return of Gozer the Gozarian, TOTAL CHAOS, Maaan!
I had a thread proposing people get experience points for doing things besides killing monsters, and suggested magic item crafting and spell research be good sample challenges. Now instead of having some other way of getting exp, you get exp for killing stuff and then lose it for being constructive.
Talk about promoting megaviolence.
Options are Liberating
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1 year ago ::
Mar 22, 2012 - 12:03AM
#52
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in 3rd we had a house rule that said you could replace the XP cost of an item by getting special materials or processes to make it.
It sent players all over the place looking for Dragon's Teeth, Tears of True love from a Succbus and then trekking their way to the Mountain of Fiery Doom to Forge their Righteous Sword of Demon Slaying.
But if the Wizard was in a hurry he could just sacrifice the XP and fall behind the rest of the group level wise. Usually Players chose to go hunting for the special Mats and most of the time wanting to make a Magic item turned into a mini adventure.
(The idea of giving up a drop of xp for anything was anathama to my group. We're damn glad Pathfinder got rid of the idea)
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1 year ago ::
Mar 22, 2012 - 1:28AM
#53
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2005
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I rarely see the problem of 'flooding the world' with magic items, someone or something had to make them. It might just be that either you can only make magic items at certain sites (Say where the black winds converge, or a leyline nexus, or something similar). Also...well it's not like only the players have magic items.
Let me put it like this, back in 3.5 Eberron was my favorite setting, it used magic in a way that made sense to me, it had...i guess wide magic might be the way to describe it, magic existed and was part of the world, and was part of it in a tangible way, but high end stuff was rare and hard to find. Controlled by the powerful house cannith or only searchable in ancient ruins or by the strongest casters.
Also, while I get that some people might have an issue with the players feeling 'entitled' to certain items I also think that we should kind of wonder about a DM who says 'you'll take what I give you and like it' as an answer to everything. This might be very problematic depending on the nature of the game itself.
One idea might be this, two types of enchantments/item creations.
You can only easily make magic items like potions, scrolls and augment crystrals, but making true magic weapons and armor is difficult and/or time consuming. Maybe add in mundane ways to boost a weapon and armor as well as a kind of temporary enchantment that can be purchased or used.
To the main idea of making item creation hard or punishing...why? Unless a DM will hand make every single treasure pile or magic items are going to be REALLY rare why bother.
Hell, maybe one idea might be soulbinding weapons to people and have them work like the legacy items in 3.5 with a few tweaks of course.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 22, 2012 - 2:13AM
#54
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2008
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I think setting is a huge factor.
In Eberron it makes more sense to have items, especially common or low end, easily made by PCs or available for purchase. In this case, the world is already "flooded" with magic in a similar way modern day Earth is "flooded" with technology. To be sure, high end tech like military grade weapons are controlled and relatively rare, but one can stroll into a Walmart and buy a hunting rifle. For this type of game, magic item creation and proliferation makes total sense.
Many campaigns are not like Eberron; however, and the ease of creation or purchase of items of power can be a serious and game breaking issue. In the old days we called campaigns broken by magic item proliferation, "Monte Haul."
And yes, to keep a balance of power regarding items in a non Eberron type setting, the DM does have to consider every item in every pile of treasure he hands out. In these cases, making Item creation hard or punishing is a very valid way to go, or even, to prohibit purchase or manufacture all together.
For such campaigns it is not a sign of a tyrant DM, but more of a DM that is doing his job right. In these games, the idea is not to make the item, but find it, usually via adventuring. Though, it does beg the question where the items came from in the first place, and why can't no one make them now?
I personally have no problems with magic item creation rules being present in D&D Next, I just want it made clear that such rules are an option based on the campaign being ran.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 22, 2012 - 6:41AM
#55
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XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek
Date Joined:
May 31, 2003
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The magic item rules should be designed with the generic fantasy world in mind while being able to increase the output of items in a world such as Eberron. I could understand if Eberron was the default world but it's not and thankfully so. The best thing is to have a default world that is right there in the middle and work from there. If you run a low fantasy game then you can limit the items created and if you run a high fantasy game then you can relax the restriction.
The difficulty of creating magic items should be apparent in the mechanics that represent that. Sure you can sit back and imagine how hard it must be to create it but if your mechanics don't reflect that then it becomes very blah.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 22, 2012 - 7:52AM
#56
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I think magic item creation should depend on components that come only as treasure from the DM. Be it a new magic dust mechanic, so PCs can stockpile the stuff to make something really awesome, or item specific components the DM weaves into the story - if they are available at all!
That leaves the DM with the control over the campaign, gives players a very open ended means to make items with the DM's input and approval and doesn't cost all the character's XP or coin!
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1 year ago ::
Mar 22, 2012 - 7:56AM
#57
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The magic item rules should be designed with the generic fantasy world in mind while being able to increase the output of items in a world such as Eberron. I could understand if Eberron was the default world but it's not and thankfully so. The best thing is to have a default world that is right there in the middle and work from there. If you run a low fantasy game then you can limit the items created and if you run a high fantasy game then you can relax the restriction.
The difficulty of creating magic items should be apparent in the mechanics that represent that. Sure you can sit back and imagine how hard it must be to create it but if your mechanics don't reflect that then it becomes very blah.
Without requiring life drain or whatever you call "XP cost" in-game, there's ample enough ways to show those mechanics, IMHO, in the form of "component rarity". You could even add in an Arcana check based on item level + rarity for items that are not plot-essential.
I'd rather have a Holy Avenger crafted with
- the purest heart/soul, willingly sacrificing self for the greater good
- a divine spark
- titanium-mithril alloy
- crafted during the alignment of all the planes, within the forge of the gods
than a Holy Avenger crafted with
- 100,000 XP
- 500,000 gp (cash or components)
- Create Magic Item ritual, or skill points in Blacksmith
Because if a magic item is supposed to be awesome outside of mechanics, its component acquisition and crafting should be much more than just "I craft item X using resources Y, Z and Q".
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1 year ago ::
Mar 22, 2012 - 8:19AM
#58
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2012
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I'd rather have a Holy Avenger crafted with
- the purest heart/soul, willingly sacrificing self for the greater good
- a divine spark
- titanium-mithril alloy
- crafted during the alignment of all the planes, within the forge of the gods.
"Can you help us slay the demon?"
"Well magistrate--how can I put this? There is a way--but it won't be easy and it won't be without cost."
"Please! What must be done?"
"Bring us the fairest, purest soul in your town. In fact--just to be safe--bring us two."
-GiantDwarf
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1 year ago ::
Mar 22, 2012 - 4:44PM
#59
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I'd rather have a Holy Avenger crafted with
- the purest heart/soul, willingly sacrificing self for the greater good
- a divine spark
- titanium-mithril alloy
- crafted during the alignment of all the planes, within the forge of the gods.
"Can you help us slay the demon?"
"Well magistrate--how can I put this? There is a way--but it won't be easy and it won't be without cost."
"Please! What must be done?"
"Bring us the fairest, purest soul in your town. In fact--just to be safe--bring us two."
-GiantDwarf
I was thinking one of the Lawful Good PCs, but anyway, here's a cookie  
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1 year ago ::
Mar 22, 2012 - 4:59PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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I'd rather have a Holy Avenger crafted with
- the purest heart/soul, willingly sacrificing self for the greater good
- a divine spark
- titanium-mithril alloy
- crafted during the alignment of all the planes, within the forge of the gods.
"Can you help us slay the demon?"
"Well magistrate--how can I put this? There is a way--but it won't be easy and it won't be without cost."
"Please! What must be done?"
"Bring us the fairest, purest soul in your town. In fact--just to be safe--bring us two."
-GiantDwarf
I was thinking one of the Lawful Good PCs, but anyway, here's a cookie
Wait. You are actually suggesting that a PC would ever be willing to die for their companion to have a weapon? Are you suggesting that a player would give up their own character for another player to have an item? Because if you are, and you've actually met a person who would do this ever, you play with very different players than I do.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
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You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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