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1 year ago ::
Mar 27, 2012 - 11:50AM
#51
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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The reason "playable dragons!" largely disappeared is the same reason CoW itself had all that stuff about humanoid minions that everyone mostly just ignored. The entire game is engineered around an intentional humanoid bias.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 27, 2012 - 1:48PM
#52
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2004
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And I'd like to see if they can build a system where playable dragons are viable, because if you have a system that can handle you playing a human or a dragon well, then you probably have one that can let you play anything inbetween as well.
"I don't want to fight dragons." - Hiccup
If dragons are to be invovled, I much prefer to play as a dragon, dragon rider, dragonslayer-slayer, dragonfriend, or anything else *but* a dragonslayer.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 27, 2012 - 2:01PM
#53
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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If you can figure out to make a red dragon playable from level one, without utterly overshadowing a human at level one or causing the grognards and simulationists to pitch a fit, you would deserve a Nobel Prize or something for doing so.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 27, 2012 - 2:21PM
#54
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2004
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My game groups currently are using the Fantasy Craft system (which is based on d20 OGL), which has a quite adequate (large, flying, fire breath, natural weapons) dragon race as core that is pretty well balanced against a human or whatever (though baseline player humans are a bit better than baseline player humans in D&D, but not by much). It does have a few different assumptions about balance, such as flying and large size being fit for first level characters, and in practice it works out quite well.
So I don't see any reason why D&D couldn't do something similar. Particularly when player modules are taken into account. There's an L&L article that talks about different modules having "unit of power" rating, with examples that feats, maneuvers, higher attributes, etc might be worth one while something like gestalt might be worth two or three. Could easily implement a powerful race like a dragon as a module like that.
Would they be exactly the same as the dragons found in the MM? No, probably not, but they wouldn't need to be. They just need the iconic abilities.
"I don't want to fight dragons." - Hiccup
If dragons are to be invovled, I much prefer to play as a dragon, dragon rider, dragonslayer-slayer, dragonfriend, or anything else *but* a dragonslayer.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 10:24AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2007
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The reason "playable dragons!" largely disappeared is the same reason CoW itself had all that stuff about humanoid minions that everyone mostly just ignored. (...)
What do you mean? I loved minions!
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9 months ago ::
Sep 06, 2012 - 10:15AM
#56
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2012
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Alignment needs to Matter, Otherwise It is a wasted Stat.
That satd the Alignment of 1 and 2 Was too strick, three blurred the lines a little through the introduction of Various prestige classes that let you play More what you want, And 4th Is Just not working for me. Some Classes, Races, Powers, ets. Should be Good only, Same goes for neutral and Evil, Which has led me to the disappointment with 4th here where a Chaotic Evil Paladin shimers with sparkling radiance the same as his Lawful good counterpart. If I am playing Evil, I want some of the dark, and sure don't want to shine and sparkle with radiant energy. That said I loved the blackguard thematicfally as the "Antipaladin" in 3rd. It felt Very different from it's good counterpart, Sneak attack, Inflict spels, But enough of the Paladin left as not to change it's role If only it was available at level 1 It would have been perfect.
Dragons go much the same way, And while I believe there should be more variance than previous MMs gave it Metallic Dragons were generally good, Chromatic Generally evil, Gem (Where are these dragons any way?) generally neutral Said that I hated the Always descriptor But it was workable in most conditions. After all Some one said you can't fight a "Good dragon" as good guys? Really? Every Gold dragon has it's own agenda, and sure enough it is not going to appreciate a group of PCs screwing that up regardless of their quest. To quote said 2nd Ed beast, "A hundred years of planning Washed away by such puny Creatures, I shall remedy that mistake now, and ensure my plans are better prepared in the future."
Honestly Same goes with Angels, And If you want to fight them, Well there are some pretty heavy handed Good gods who don't play well with others, And it does suck when the grand Justicar Of Fill in the blank way too lawful diety decides it is high time your partie's Chaotic members were sentanced for their infractions.
The system works, Good people don't always get along, otherwise there would be no wars, Good dieties clash, The difference is in how they react when presented with an outside threat like an Evil diety.
The game is not just about combat as well And not every thing is there to fight. Otherwise they would not stat the heroes in campaign settings, especially in an edition that really lacks any resources for playing aevil aligned PCs.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 06, 2012 - 10:19AM
#57
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Some Classes, Races, Powers, ets. Should be Good only, Same goes for neutral and Evil,
No.
If I am playing Evil, I want some of the dark, and sure don't want to shine and sparkle with radiant energy.
Who said your radiant energy had to be shiny and sparkly? Make it black, or blood-red or something.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 06, 2012 - 10:43AM
#58
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2012
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Conceptually Yes, Really no Evil self serving Person will take on the burdens of Certain classes, What fun is power if you can't use it. Goes to what Evil is. It is not some one wearing a black hat, debating how to over throw the earth. It is some one who cares about themselves above any one else, And is willing to step on any one in their way to get what they want. Good cares about others and puts the needs of the group society, friends, above their own. Yes a good person will sign his life away to become a holy protector, forsake material wealth to serve a diety of charity And the cliche's go on, See any number of specialty priests and the original paladin writeups.
Quite simpley an evil person will not do that, even to an evil diety, Sure there are clerics Liured in by the lure of powers. No restrictions on their faith, and Really no penalties for swapping dieties whenever the whim strikes them. But No evil being would willing lay down it's free will to become the weapon (pawn) of any other entity. Simple as that. General the only Evil paladin would be one corrupted.
If you don't like Alignment, Try world of Darkness. If you want to play where there is no penalty for turning on whoever you want. It was a great system. It just doesn't work in an environment like the settings Dungeons and dragons exists in, where Gods and their wrath are portrayed as very real, Angels and demons At times openly walk the land and People weild divine power as conduits to some otherworldly power. Yeah I think the Roleplaying experience of forsaking a paladin's god would wind up being "I forsake the..." Hand of god leaves a red smear on the marble temple steps Loudmouth apostate is rendered Deaf Dumb and blind, What ever punishment the diety would inflict.
THe biggest Misconception the World has on alignment is Lawful good Is nice and squishy Sacves cat from trees, Etc. Neutral good, Sing songs and Give every cent to the beggars, chaotic good Rob from the rich to give to the poor. Lawful neutral Follow the rules or else, True neutral I don't Care, Chaotic Neutral, CHaos, fun let's shake things up, Lawful evil Corporate Attorney, Neutral Evil, I am the terror in the night, CHaotic Evil, Oh kittens and flowers lets murder things. Maybe not that over the edge but close. There are Lawful good people who are pricks And hold every one to their unachievable standards, Neutral good people Might help the beggars Might also rouse a street of beggars to arms against merchants if they feel they are over charging. CHaotic good, Tries to help people Sure but their methods in bad cases can be very dangerous to completely lethal. Neutrals are Simply driven by a force outside of Good and Evil. Etc. Alignment does not dictate who your friends are, what your enemies are, It is personal code, and bearing.
I do however; disagree with spells like detect Evil, Talk about limiting. No Mixed alignment groups? Yeah that needed to go.
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