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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 6:31PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2012
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my understanding is when you grab en enemy, they are immobilized, and must do an acrobatics or athletics check, and if successful can shift.
Now, while being grabbed, can you attack? If so, can you attack the person grabbing you?
All it says is that you're immobilized.
Can the grabber, grab the targets arms? Can he prevent the target from attacking!?
Too much left in the air. Very confusing.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 6:36PM
#2
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You've got the gist of it -- when grabbed, you're immobilized. That means you can't leave your square via normal movement, but that's it.
Yes, you can attack your grabber at your leisure. No you can't target its arms (any more than you can with a regular attack).
Like much of 4e, the effect is quite specific in its mechanical impact, but otherwise leaves it up to the players and DM to narrate the accompanying action to their own satisfaction.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 6:44PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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my understanding is when you grab en enemy, they are immobilized, and must do an acrobatics or athletics check, and if successful can shift.
Now, while being grabbed, can you attack? If so, can you attack the person grabbing you?
All it says is that you're immobilized.
Can the grabber, grab the targets arms? Can he prevent the target from attacking!?
Too much left in the air. Very confusing.
4e is very specific. Powers and effects do what they say they do, and only that. You can't attack its arms, because hit locations don't exist. Hits are hits are hits. The system is designed specifically so taht nothing is left in the air. What is written is what happens.
There are other ways to escape, though. Forced movement automatically ends a grab, for instance.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 7:22PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 20, 2003
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I will just add there are some special cases for ending grabs.
Forced movement doesn't always end a grab - it only ends a grab if the grabber and the grabb-ee are moved out of range of the grabbing effect.
For example, if grabbed by a Roper, its tentacle grab attack has a range of 10. Forced movement on either the grabber character or the Roper will only end the grab if they are more than 10 squares apart after the forced movement. A Roper also has special rules (in its stat block) that allow its enemies to attack the tentacle grabbing a creature to force the roper to let go. The Roper takes no damage, but the grab ends.
Chokers are another good example at low levels, as their grab has a range of 2.
There are also some creatures that can swallow whole a creature they have grabbed. In some cases the swallowed creature is still grabbed + additional effects and and can escape by getting out of the grab, while in others they are no longer grabbed but have worse effects (such as Dazed + Restrained). Each monsters stat block will explain which rules apply after being swallowed. If it doesn't say you're still grabbed after being swallowed, you're no longer grabbed, but usually you're still pretty stuck.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 8:16PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Mar 12, 2011
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Teleporting also ends grabbed effects, even if the teleport ends within grab range of the grabber
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1 year ago ::
Mar 15, 2012 - 4:27AM
#6
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- Here be Dragons next 100 km
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It used to be that creatures who can't take opportunity actions couldn't maintain a grab, so dazing the grabber would free their target. However, I seem to recall that's been errata'd and now it's only conditions which prevent the creature from taking actions (such as Stunned) which can end the grab.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 15, 2012 - 8:46PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Dec 20, 2009
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The stupid thing is that RAW dazing should still prevent grabs, it's only that FAQ that changed the interpretation that made dazes no longer work. In fact RAW it does still work, the FAQ is wrong in my opinion until they errata the wording.
Also, is there actually any wording that teleporting automatically breaks grabs? I can find wording that says that teleporting out of reach breaks grabs but nothing that says it breaks if you teleport still within range.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 16, 2012 - 12:25AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Mar 12, 2011
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The wording is more confusing than I was remembering. But here are the bits that lead me to believe that any teleport can end a grab. All of my notes will be in parentheses.
Under Grab in the RC pg 231:
The creature is immobilized (this will be important later when looking at the teleportation rules)
Other common tactics for escaping a grab are to teleport away or to be pulled, pushed, or slid out of the grabber's reach (note it does not specify that the teleport must be out of the grabber's reach.).
Under Teleportation in the RC pg 214:
Immobilized or Restrained (remember that grab is an immobilize): Being immobilized does not prevent a target from teleporting. If a target teleports away from a physical restraint, a monster's grasp, or some other immobilizing effect that is located in a specific space, the target is no longer immobilized or restrained (I do not know why they use grasp here instead of grab, but I take it to include grabs).
I can certainly see a case made against that ruling, though, since it's neither specifically mentioned.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 16, 2012 - 1:06AM
#9
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The stupid thing is that RAW dazing should still prevent grabs, it's only that FAQ that changed the interpretation that made dazes no longer work. In fact RAW it does still work, the FAQ is wrong in my opinion until they errata the wording.
Also, is there actually any wording that teleporting automatically breaks grabs? I can find wording that says that teleporting out of reach breaks grabs but nothing that says it breaks if you teleport still within range.
Nah, RAW is ambiguous at best. RC says "prevents [the grabber] from taking actions." Now you could read that as "prevents [the grabber] from taking certain types of actions" but it would not be a standard English reading by any stretch. FAQ is just clarifying intent, which is what it is for.
RC pg. 214 for the other question. If you teleport away from a monster's grasp is actually the specific example used for how teleport breaks immobilize/restrained effects that are located in a specific space.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 18, 2012 - 8:07PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Dec 20, 2009
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Personally I don't find it that ambiguous, I understand that others find it so but in my eyes daze pretty clearly prevents actions, not all of them but it does prevent some of them. If you go by the ruling that you can't take any actions then technically dominated shouldn't break grabs either since you can still take actions but they are just controlled by someone else.
Hmmm but if you teleport still within reach of them have you actually teleported away from "their grasp"? Personally I would say no even though RAI I think it should go the other way.
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