|
1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 1:57AM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Dec 26, 2009
|
In 4e WotC displayed a nasty habit of abandoning unfinished product lines and content. Cases include the Race Handbooks, promised supplements for the Feywild and Shadowfell, etc,. I understand why some of these products never appeared, or how unexpected developments screwed with the release priorities (There still are no online maps for the Slaying Stone despite being referenced/ promised in the product). As a result I don't trust WotC to handle that kind of long-term project/ product support.
This kind of support is dissapointing and it shouldn't happen for Next. It's purely a management issue, so just plan and design with your limitations in mind. Focus on immediate content that doesn't leave any loose threads.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Feb 29, 2012 - 1:27AM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
|
Agreed, though it actually goes back further than that. Entire power sources promised at edition's start, some of which people I knew began playing 4E entirely in anticipation of, never appeared or were cut down into subclasses. Part of this came from what I've talked about before in how there was no concern for design space when creating the PHB classes. A lot of the fault lies with arcane magic being such a nebulous concept that it devours elemental and infringes heavily on both psionic and primal.
There were a lot of long-term ideas but no long-term planning past PHB2. For instance, Psychic Lock is a ridiculously ill-conceived feat when classes that do nothing but psychic damage are considered, but at the time of publishing it was nearly worthless because there was no consistent way to do psychic damage. Ki was scrapped entirely when it should have been folded into martial, and instead psionic took the only survivor (the monk) and the fact that it's entirely a last-minute add-on is made obvious by how it doesn't even follow the same rules as the other psionic classes. I personally despise Psionic Augmentation as a design decision, and really kind of regret purchasing PHB3 all things considered, but at minimum it was a decision that shouldn't have been done halfway. Speaking of PHB3, did the runepriest or seeker ever get support to make them even decent?
You're right that it's a management issue. Even if the development team doesn't know what exactly they're going to do with later material, they need to A: know enough about where they're going to keep their promises realistic, and B: make sure their immediate content is complete but leaves open enough design space to let other supplements not just retread the same ground. Leave room for psionics to be something different than "arcane magic with MP".
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Feb 29, 2012 - 1:54AM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2012
|
The only thing I have to add here is that this isn't new. What you're experienced happened with 2e, it happened with 3e, and sadly history is repeating itself. I'm still a little sensative about basically being told that I'm a dinosaur that refuses to adapt to 'refreshed' mechanics. But I'll brace myself for it and present my argument against 'reinventing' the game. You loose customer trust! It's not an issue of this system or that system is an abomiation that should never have been, it's a matter of creating a product, getting people excited enough to spend a lot of money on it and then saying. Oh wait, no that one's out of date. You need the new one, not compatible with the old one, so sorry, you'll have to convert or write all of your own material from now on.
Maybe 5e will be easier to adapt to 4e so you guys won't be totally abandoned.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Feb 29, 2012 - 6:25AM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Dec 26, 2009
|
I don't care about edition transitions. That ****'s inevitable.
What I'm frustrated about is a failure to properly develope promised content, and how poor planning leads to WotC repeatedly designing content under an assumption that weak areas or missing areas would be revisited in a future supplement.
The last thing anyone should want is another batch of core books missing critical information that is promised to show up 1-2 years down the line but never does.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Feb 29, 2012 - 11:20AM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2004
|
It's an issue with consumer trust, really. Cut content is one thing. Constant delays with Dragon/Dungeon articles, Errata, and online tools (especially the VTT) is another. Empty promises will certainly cause dissent among your player rank.
@TrueMarshmallow
Personally, I loved PHB3. Hybrid classes really made the book for me.
On Runepriests, and Seekers. I know that Runepriests just recieved some content a couple of months ago. Don't know the specifics, but I do know they got a new build a couple of pretty good (and one ridiculously overpowered) powers. And Seekers? Well...
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Feb 29, 2012 - 12:46PM
#6
|
|
|
I think the only reasonable way to do what the OP suggests is for WotC to only announce books at the last minute after the books have been sent to the printers.
That way no one is upset when a (potential) product is cut before it makes it to the final production stage.
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
Show
"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
Show
Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Feb 29, 2012 - 3:06PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Dec 26, 2009
|
I think the only reasonable way to do what the OP suggests is for WotC to only announce books at the last minute after the books have been sent to the printers.
That way no one is upset when a (potential) product is cut before it makes it to the final production stage.
The problem originates from annoucing content that hasn't been started or near completion.
Don't plan for something that might not happen. If you're going to plan for a tie-in prduct/ book then it has to be penciled in as an immediate priority for this quarter or the next.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Feb 29, 2012 - 3:55PM
#8
|
|
|
I think the only reasonable way to do what the OP suggests is for WotC to only announce books at the last minute after the books have been sent to the printers.
That way no one is upset when a (potential) product is cut before it makes it to the final production stage.
The problem originates from annoucing content that hasn't been started or near completion.
Don't plan for something that might not happen. If you're going to plan for a tie-in prduct/ book then it has to be penciled in as an immediate priority for this quarter or the next.
Yes and no.
Some people want to know what is coming down the pipe as soon as they can - gives them something to look forward to and the longer that it is advertised the more publicity it gets.
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
Show
"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
Show
Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
|
|
|